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2016 Presidential Election Thread


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Hillary really rocked the debate last night. She came up as well informed, poised and even funny. The debate confirmed my opinion of Bernie. While I agree with his opinions, I don't think he has the leadership qualities to be President. He came off as strident, kind of grumpy and kind of disheveled in both appearance and presentation.

Agree re: Hillary! I love her!

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Bernie is PRO-GUN, ergo pro NRA.. coz why? Vermont is a rural state?? Please. Nevertheless, I grant him that serious flaw. But, as a whole, he isn't presidential.

It seems to me Bernie is a president for those who agree with him and share his advocacies, DAMN those who don't. America isn't Denmark, and though I'm not American, I understand it to be a nation of hardworking "do-it-yourselfers" with an individualist bent since its inception; that's why many are disdainful of socialist entitlements. I agree though, that income disparity has gone the extreme with the current financial system having the rich (willingly or not) suck the lifeblood out of the system at the expense of the middle and lower classes. Something tough and brave should be done-- but it's not done using dumb bulldozers (break the banks!)..

Still, I find it, well, reductive, that whenever a politician changes positions on an issue, or have dealings with sectors others might see as villainous (eg. Wall Street), he/she is necessarily of questionable character or leadership. Like wtf, are you supposed to be president of the "downtrodden" only?

A president should know what he/she wants and will work hard to achieve it but is able to compromise (within bounds) to achieve the best outcome for all. A president should have his/her core values intact but should also be flexible, practical while progressive, intelligent and with a good/great grasp of issues but cognizant of the need to still learn and hear from all voices-- a president for ALL. A president for all but who can still be tough and decisive when the need arrives. Indications are, Bernie-- and more certainly ALL the Republican clowns (especially that huckster Trump)-- aren't these things.

HILLARY IT IS.

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I think it's going to be a really tight race. Bernie has a lot of young and significantly left leaning supporters and he also has more clear proposals than say Hillary Clinton. On the other hand, Hillary probably appeals better to the more moderate and conservative sections of the Democratic Party. She's stronger on gun control than Bernie which is one of the few things she has over him. She also has Wall Street and the media on her side.

With a little over a year to go, it's difficult to clearly determine who will win the Democratic race because so much can happen in that amount of time. Bernie's campaign will either continue to gain momentum or lose steam. He's currently in a better position than even Obama was when he was running against Hillary. Then again, people could end up voting for Hillary as the safer more established choice. I wish the best for both of them and would like to see either one of them win.

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One thing really good about Bernie being in the race even if he doesn't get the nomination is that I think it really is forcing Hillary to go more left and take up more liberal causes. Hope she sticks to it.

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One thing really good about Bernie being in the race even if he doesn't get the nomination is that I think it really is forcing Hillary to go more left and take up more liberal causes. Hope she sticks to it.

I hope so too.

Regarding all the talk above about left and right. I don't think people in America know the actual definitions of "socialism", "communism", "fascism", etc....

I'm so left, I label myself a Socialist. But, once the "S" word is used in America, uninformed people go ape shit.

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I hope so too.

Regarding all the talk above about left and right. I don't think people in America know the actual definitions of "socialism", "communism", "fascism", etc....

I'm so left, I label myself a Socialist. But, once the "S" word is used in America, uninformed people go ape shit.

True. Unlike communism, which is basically dead, socialism is an ever evolving ism as new models crop up that show how much it can work in certain contexts: the Scandinavian model being the prime example. Gone are the days when it has to either be capitalism or socialism and never the two shall meet.

Successful capitalism actually needs a good dose of socialism to prevent itself from collapsing under its own market-driven, hyper-Darwinian excesses. Socialism helps spread out economic and social benefits to a greater number of people which could help a lot in preventing mass disaffection and class warfare that could lead to great tumult down the road.

And properly reined in/sensible socialism makes economic sense: take the example of universal health care and comprehensive socialized health care program that focuses more on health promotion and disease prevention: sure they require taxpayer dollars upfront but such public investment in health would be so much more cost-effective in the long run as healthier people become more economically productive and less of a major drag to the economy and lessening public/private costs. It boggles the mind that Republicans who are supposed to be pro-business can't see this!

Still, America is culturally strongly individualistic and are "prove yourself-ers" and so even the Scandinavian socialist model might not work. There has to be a balance and such balance must be arrived at with cooler heads, reason, and earnest and constructive engagement and not with self-righteousness. Even if Bernie is right in his opinion(s), he can be too inflexible which does not a good president make.

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Successful capitalism actually needs a good dose of socialism to prevent itself from collapsing under its own market-driven, hyper-Darwinian excesses. Socialism helps spread out economic and social benefits to a greater number of people which could help a lot in preventing mass disaffection and class warfare that could lead to great tumult down the road.

THIS! THIS" THIS! - Just look at the history of capitalism of the last 25 years. Since communism/socialism in the Eastern block collpased in 1989 capitalism could rise without any hardly any limits. Because it could. There was no longer a competing system. Before that there was always a chance that people could actually think that communism/socialism isn't such a bad thing afterall especially when it comes to universal healthcare or social benefits and education. Does anyone remember when the worst thing capitalism could come up with was junk bond traders on Wallstreet. Back in the day people expected an interest of around 10%. Today? At least 25%. Occupy Wallstreet was right. There needs to be a shift. People should no longer accept the current system that privatizes all the profits and socializes all the losses. It's a sick system.

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The income disparity is a big concern and it has been creating this strange type of class system in US. Over gentrification and pushing out poorer people in their own neighborhoods is something that really hurts families. Just not really sure what can be done about it.

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The income disparity is a big concern and it has been creating this strange type of class system in US. Over gentrification and pushing out poorer people in their own neighborhoods is something that really hurts families. Just not really sure what can be done about it.

It's relatively easy. Create a law that prohibits landlords to raise the rent the way they want to. The rent can only be raised by 10 percent if an appartment is leased to a new renter AND only if the rent is below the medium rent of a certain area. If the old rent is already above the medium rent a raise is impossible. For leases of unspecified duration a raise is not possible either except the building exteriors and interiors are modernized. The permitted increase should not exceed 10 percent. Since you need investment in new buildings those rules do not apply to completely new built or conversed (from office to living) buildings. Here market rates apply. Of course those buildings will have a certain amount of rent stabilzed appartments as well. Which I think is the rule now. Since the rents of those buildings will increase the medium rent of a certain area a growth and therefore return of investment is there. But, and this is important, the increase is not as outrageous as it is now which forces many people with low or even medium income to live in the undesirable parts of a city or the outskirts which usually means a long commute to your workplace.

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OMG Clinton testified for 11 hours!

11 hours in front of a bunch of clowns.

She was so good.

I think the entire trap blew up in the GOP's face. They are being mocked everywhere - even their own conservative websites for an 11 hour line of questioning that basically elevated her.

I am telling you, she's feared by the GOP because she is virtually impossible to destroy. They've been trying for 25 years and she still winds up more powerful than before.

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I have gained sooo much more respect for her for putting up with that circus sideshow for 11 freakin hours.

And I agree I think its blowing up in the republicans face because she came out of it looking more Presidential than ever.

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I think the entire trap blew up in the GOP's face. They are being mocked everywhere - even their own conservative websites for an 11 hour line of questioning that basically elevated her.

I am telling you, she's feared by the GOP because she is virtually impossible to destroy. They've been trying for 25 33 years and she still winds up more powerful than before.

Does this remind you of someone? :sassy:

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Hillary is just AMAZING. 11-hour interrogation (basically) and she maintained composure. She has her flaws but, seriously, she IS the best in a presidential field littered with clowns and nothings. She will be president. Rightfully so.

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Does this remind you of someone? :sassy:

It's interesting how some, if not most, of the Madonna haters I know don't really like Hillary either. They just hate strong independent women who don't behave like victims (gaga).

She really is the Madonna of politics. She's been around for a very long time, has gone through a lot of shit, very polarizing and every other female politician secretly wants to be her but it will never happen.

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Amy Schumer and Katy Perry posted pics with Hilary, omg the hate that Hillary is getting in the comments. So many saying they're unfollowing cause of them supporting her :lmao:

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It's interesting how some, if not most, of the Madonna haters I know don't really like Hillary either. They just hate strong independent women who don't behave like victims (gaga).

She really is the Madonna of politics. She's been around for a very long time, has gone through a lot of shit, very polarizing and every other female politician secretly wants to be her but it will never happen.

I've yet to meet one person who hates Hillary because we don't like strong independent woman who don't behave like victims. Everyone that I know who doesn't like Hillary and is a democrat doesn't like her because they're actually well informed and know all about her incredibly shoddy record as senator and secretary of state.

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Well like I have said and this is just my opinion and people can take it or leave it.

The dem nominee is going to be Hillary or Bernie. The odds as of right now are in Hillary's favor.

So more than likely this Presidential election could be Hillary VS Bat Shit Crazy

I for one am done looking at anything negative on Hillary's end because I think every person with common sense needs to come together and rally around her if she is the nominee, even if you have to hold your nose while you are doing it. I refuse to bicker among people that agree on most issues when it comes to the direction they want this country to go in, and I REFUSE to see one of the mentally ill nuts on the Republican side become President where they will have a chance of undoing any good Obama has done, or getting to elect some whack job to the Supreme Court that could set this country back a generation.

FUCK NO to ANY of that. So if Hillary is the nominee I am backing her 100% because the only other outcome is frightening as hell.

I said the same exact thing back in 08 when this forum was literally Hillary loonville and I was one of the only ones on here that supported Obama. I said Obama might be my first choice, but if Hillary is the nominee you bet your ass I am still voting for her. And look what happened under Obama's watch. He got to nominate two people to the Supreme Court. The same thing would have happened had Hillary gotten in no doubt. If it was flipped and McCain/Palin had a hand in placing two people on the court do you really think something like gay marriage would be the law of the land right now? No fucking way.

Elections MATTER!

Use your damn brains people and VOTE even if you have to hold your damn nose.

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Carson should be put to jail for saying all the dumb things he says. What a moron. I can't stand people like him.

What will do the racist republicans if he wins? For whom will they vote?

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This election will be decided once again based on 1) voter turnout and 2) who independent voters decide to vote for.

The only thing going for Republicans is that they vehemently hate Obama and Hillary and at this point they will vote unanimously for any imbecile who isn't a Democrat.

Well like I have said and this is just my opinion and people can take it or leave it.

The dem nominee is going to be Hillary or Bernie. The odds as of right now are in Hillary's favor.

So more than likely this Presidential election could be Hillary VS Bat Shit Crazy

I for one am done looking at anything negative on Hillary's end because I think every person with common sense needs to come together and rally around her if she is the nominee, even if you have to hold your nose while you are doing it. I refuse to bicker among people that agree on most issues when it comes to the direction they want this country to go in, and I REFUSE to see one of the mentally ill nuts on the Republican side become President where they will have a chance of undoing any good Obama has done, or getting to elect some whack job to the Supreme Court that could set this country back a generation.

FUCK NO to ANY of that. So if Hillary is the nominee I am backing her 100% because the only other outcome is frightening as hell.

I said the same exact thing back in 08 when this forum was literally Hillary loonville and I was one of the only ones on here that supported Obama. I said Obama might be my first choice, but if Hillary is the nominee you bet your ass I am still voting for her. And look what happened under Obama's watch. He got to nominate two people to the Supreme Court. The same thing would have happened had Hillary gotten in no doubt. If it was flipped and McCain/Palin had a hand in placing two people on the court do you really think something like gay marriage would be the law of the land right now? No fucking way.

Elections MATTER!

Use your damn brains people and VOTE even if you have to hold your damn nose.

You see, I completely disagree here. I think no matter who the Democrat nominee is, at the surface, they all agree more or less on many issues that are very easy to debate and use to rile up voters. They all agree when it comes to equal rights for the LGBT community (either through domestic partnerships or straight up gay marriage), on abortion, immigration reform, gun control, etc. There's no need to bicker over those things. I agree there.

However, two things that have severely damaged the USA for at least the next couple of decades WAY more than the tired old abortion debate and Gay rights is 1) Neoconservative / imperialistic foreign policy and 2) Corporate lobbyists, and the scary thing about these two major issues which never get the attention that they deserve is that no matter what is said in public or during a debate, all of these things get done behind closed doors. We have no idea what really goes down.

In the case of Hillary, there's no reason to believe, given her record, that she will do anything to actually side with the American people instead of the 1% and finally end U.S.'s aggressive and imperialistic foreign policies that has not only sent several middle eastern, African, Asian, Latin American and other countries (basically countries from every single continent) into complete chaos, but is also threatening to bankrupt the country.

As an example, the U.S. currently spends twice as much on net interest than it does on education/social services:

us-spending-by-program.jpg

At this point, the U.S. has no problem repaying the net interest generated on its ENORMOUS debt of $16,394,000,000,000 (as of 2013), I just don't see why anyone expects great things to happen and things to turn around for America anytime soon.

So, again, if Hillary gets nominated, which is basically a sure deal, I just kind of don't care. It'll be the same old bullshit. I'm sorry if you disagree with me, I just find it impossible to care. Yes, I know Hillary will be the lesser of two evils, I just don't care enough to go through the huge hassle one has to go through to vote abroad.

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So, again, if Hillary gets nominated, which is basically a sure deal, I just kind of don't care. It'll be the same old bullshit. I'm sorry if you disagree with me, I just find it impossible to care. Yes, I know Hillary will be the lesser of two evils, I just don't care enough to go through the huge hassle one has to go through to vote abroad.

That's fine if you believe that but trust. If a republican becomes President this country is going to turn into a shithole and probably make the Bush years look tame in comparison.

At the end of the day it is lesser that two "evils". But there is a behemoth sized gap between the "evil" on the republican side and the "evil" on the dem side.

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That's fine if you believe that but trust. If a republican becomes President this country is going to turn into a shithole and probably make the Bush years look tame in comparison.

At the end of the day it is lesser that two "evils". But there is a behemoth sized gap between the "evil" on the republican side and the "evil" on the dem side.

It would be worse than the Reagan era.

scream-queens-janet-leigh-sized.jpg

02_seventies.jpg

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However, two things that have severely damaged the USA for at least the next couple of decades WAY more than the tired old abortion debate and Gay rights is 1) Neoconservative / imperialistic foreign policy and 2) Corporate lobbyists, and the scary thing about these two major issues which never get the attention that they deserve is that no matter what is said in public or during a debate, all of these things get done behind closed doors. We have no idea what really goes down.

In the case of Hillary, there's no reason to believe, given her record, that she will do anything to actually side with the American people instead of the 1% and finally end U.S.'s aggressive and imperialistic foreign policies that has not only sent several middle eastern, African, Asian, Latin American and other countries (basically countries from every single continent) into complete chaos, but is also threatening to bankrupt the country.

I disagree with the bold statement. Most of her stated policies favor the middle class. This persona of being in the pocket of the 1% is a fantasy written by Hillary haters. Her husband raised taxes on the wealthy for heaven's sake and although Hillary is not Bill, she is widely regarded as being more liberal than him (she pushed him to attempt single payer healthcare in the early 90's which cost him politically).

Just because the Clintons aren't Elizabeth Warren does not mean they are Mitt Romney. Every time people say she's only in it to help the 1% it's simply not true. Her domestic policies are night and day compared to the GOP.

The one thing I cannot argue is that she's a defense hawk. I fully expect military intervention in foreign hot beds of unrest under her Presidency (to some degree). I don't think we are talking Iraq War idiocy, but she clearly is not afraid to use the military in certain situations. I understand that this makes the liberal wing uneasy. I totally get why many prefer Bernie, but again, Obama was supposed to be the change in foreign policy yet look where we are. I really don't know if Bernie would be better than Obama in that regard.

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Wall Street has made Hillary Clinton a millionaire

As Clinton tries to talk tough about how she will stand up to America's biggest banks, her Democratic rivals are likely to remind voters just how cozy she's been with Wall Street.

Clinton made $3.15 million in 2013 alone from speaking to firms like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank and UBS, according to the list her campaign released of her speaking fees.

"Her closeness with big banks on Wall Street is sincere, it's heart-felt, long-established and well known," former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley has said on the campaign trail.

While Clinton has given paid speeches to many groups, Wall Street banks and investment houses made up a third of her speech income.

She even made more money speaking to UBS and Goldman Sachs than her husband Bill did. Goldman Sachs in New York paid Bill $200,000 for a speech in June 2013 and Hillary $225,000 for a speech in October of that year.

Clinton's Wall Street ties likely to be debate issue

"If the other candidates want to make this an issue, they've got plenty of material," says Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

Sabato predicts O'Malley or Jim Webb are more likely to go negative on Clinton in the CNN debate Tuesday, but even Bernie Sanders may be able to take a sideswipe when it comes to Wall Street.

Sanders has been outspoken that the big banks are still "too big to fail" and should be broken up.

Clinton's anti-Wall Street policies stop far short of that, with proposals to tax short-term trading and impose a "risk fee" on big banks with assets over $50 billion.

Wall Street's reaction to her plan to regulation big banks was mostly a sigh of relief.

"We continue to believe Clinton would be one of the better candidates for financial firms," one analyst wrote.

Related: Wall Street isn't worried about Hillary Clinton's plan

Wall Street has been a top supporter of Clinton's career

As a former senator from New York, it is not surprising that Hillary Clinton would have a close connection to the financial world. But Wall Street continues to be a big contributor to her political career.

In her 2008 run for president, JPMorgan (JPM), Goldman Sachs (GS), Citigroup (C)and Morgan Stanley (MS)employees were among her top campaign contributors, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Tabulating campaign contributions for her entire senate political career shows that four of the top five her contributors are Wall Street banks (Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley).

In contrast, Sander's career campaign contribution list is almost entirely made up of union groups.

Related: How Clinton and Sanders would tackle income inequality

Republicans likely to have even more Wall Street ties

Clinton has tried to re-cast herself in this campaign. She shunned Manhattan for her campaign headquarters, opting to locate in hip Brooklyn.

She also did not list out where her speaking fees came from on her 2014 tax return, although she made about the same overall for speeches -- around $10 million -- as she did in 2013.

Still, her ties to big banks could be a problem in the Democratic primary, making it more difficult for her to appeal to the far left of her party. But if she becomes the Democratic candidate, her banking connections probably won't be as big of a deal on Election Day.

"The GOP candidate is likely to have even more time with, and donations from, Wall Street," says Sabato.

This is from CNN, not FOX news http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/13/investing/hillary-clinton-wall-street/

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Hillary Clinton Pushed Mexico's Oil Privatization

Emails released on July 31 by the U.S. State Department reveal more about the origins of energy reform efforts in Mexico. The State Department released them as part of the once-a-month rolling release schedule for emails generated by former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, now a Democratic presidential candidate.

Originally stored on a private server, with Clinton and her closest advisors using the server and private accounts, the emails confirm Clinton's State Department helped to break state-owned company Pemex's (Petroleos Mexicanos) oil and gas industry monopoly in Mexico, opening up the country to international oil and gas companies. And two of the Coordinators helping to make it happen, both of whom worked for Clinton, now work in the private sector and stand to gain financially from the energy reforms they helped create.

The appearance of the emails also offers a chance to tell the deeper story of the role the Clinton-led State Department and other powerful actors played in opening up Mexico for international business in the oil and gas sphere. That story begins with a trio.

Here's the rest of the article (from the HuffingtonPost, not some conspiracy theory website): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-horn/exclusive-hillary-clinton_b_7963596.html

Oh, and just as an FYI, this reform has been a horrible MESS that has led to unprecedented political unrest in Mexico. But whatever, as long as Hillary's friends get what they want, it's all gravy.

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I swear if I have to endure THIS as our President, because people didn't turn out to vote for Hillary because she wasn't to the left enough or liberal enough, I am going to find every one of you and shit in your beds!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

This is the current frontrunner in the republican party. This NUTCASE!

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