Why didn't madonna release "Shame"

[elijah]

Deeper and Deeper indeed was tailor made monster hit. It should ve been N1.

[nightcutter]

I've never been big on Deeper and Deeper.

[Supernatural]

Ive had a number of females tell me they like the Rain song/video over the years.... Take A Bow and Power Of Goodbye seems popular with women also.

[Guest]

Deeper and Deeper indeed was tailor made monster hit. It should ve been N1.

Why?

[Guest]

Deeper and Deeper was supposed to be a monster hit, and since songs like Express Yourself peaked at #2, or like Into The Groove never placed in the US sales charts at all, D&D being a top 5 hit was a success. The video is weird (one of my favorites btw) but a highly relatable and strong pop song did not connect with the MTV audience as much as it could have.

I've always felt that Madonna (subconsciously) removed herself from the pedestal of ultra-fame and popularity with Erotica and SEX.

And Bad Girl flopped because it had to. Radio and the public made sure of that, lest we forget it was released right at the same time as Body Of Evidence.

The videos from the Erotica era are as timeless as any in the Madonna canon, and they are my favorites alongside the Bedtime Stories videos. High style and high production value with storylines and some biographical elements to them. And some say she can't act! Lol!

[Guest]

The Erotica videos are probably her greatest quality video outwork. I mean...wow.

[Fighting Spirit]

Thank fuck she never did the cheap re-release thing just because some songs flopped.

[mdna2012]

This song needs to just fuckin leak already, jeez! I know of a few people who run madonnatribe have all of those erotica demos in crystal clear quality. And I was so close to getting them but it didn't work out in the end. grr!

[ryan]

This song needs to just fuckin leak already, jeez! I know of a few people who run madonnatribe have all of those erotica demos in crystal clear quality. And I was so close to getting them but it didn't work out in the end. grr!

[Starman]

i cant imagine my life without the Bad Girl video , i remember the first time i saw it i was cutting my hair and

[jonski43]

Deeper and Deeper was supposed to be a monster hit, and since songs like Express Yourself peaked at #2, or like Into The Groove never placed in the US sales charts at all, D&D being a top 5 hit was a success. The video is weird (one of my favorites btw) but a highly relatable and strong pop song did not connect with the MTV audience as much as it could have.

I've always felt that Madonna (subconsciously) removed herself from the pedestal of ultra-fame and popularity with Erotica and SEX.

And Bad Girl flopped because it had to. Radio and the public made sure of that, lest we forget it was released right at the same time as Body Of Evidence.

The videos from the Erotica era are as timeless as any in the Madonna canon, and they are my favorites alongside the Bedtime Stories videos. High style and high production value with storylines and some biographical elements to them. And some say she can't act! Lol!

Ah yes, that didn't help. Releasing this rubbish raunchy film just proved to some that she was over and had just descended into cheap shock tactics. Was't BG meant to be the second single but D&D was brought forward to try limit the damage from the Sex book? Also, D&D was meant to have another shocking video but that was dropped too and changed to the seventies disco theme?

I wonder how many other songs are in the vaults from this album? Remember when Dear Father leaked and no one knew anything about that song!

[ryan]

No, Bad Girl was planned to have an X-rated video. Both BG and Erotica were going to be released as video singles on VHS.

[Guest bluejean]

Imagining Erotica without the song Erotica is like imagining a man without a penis. No thanks.

[Guest Lum]

We all know "Shame" is great but "Dear Father" is even better!

Dear Father, to this day, is probably my favorite demo. I wish it would have been released officially.

[jonski43]

No, Bad Girl was planned to have an X-rated video. Both BG and Erotica were going to be released as video singles on VHS.

But I thought D&D was meant to having a shocking video too as the song's about a teenage boy comng to terms with his homosexuality. Then it was changed to the 70s theme? I'm pretty sure I read that here.

Just reading Wikipedia, and someone in the comment was saying Secret is about transexualism based on the lines 'my baby's got a secret, happiness lies in your own hand'!

[ryan]

No, the whole song being about a gay young boy..., that came fr the Ghv2 booklet and I'm pretty sure Madonna debunked that theory. Madonna actually came up with the Deeper video concept herself. There's handwritten notes by her describing what each scene should look like.

An early press leaflet that surfaced a few years ago confirmed that Bad Girl was originally slated to be the second single, and both BG and Erotica would be accompanied by x-rated video singles.

But I always found that leaflet to be fake IMO. The original track listing contained both Fever and Goodbye to Innoncence, which I find hard to believe because Shep made it sound like GTI was automatically dropped once Fever came into production, as told in the Erotica diaries.

Secondly, I have a hard time seeing Fever being the last song on the album. I guess the "what a lovely way to burn" bit would work as a closing, butthe whole song overall isn't closing material IMO.

[Guest]

But I thought D&D was meant to having a shocking video too as the song's about a teenage boy comng to terms with his homosexuality. Then it was changed to the 70s theme? I'm pretty sure I read that here.

Just reading Wikipedia, and someone in the comment was saying Secret is about transexualism based on the lines 'my baby's got a secret, happiness lies in your own hand'!

Secret is a simple love song. It's the idea that somebody comes into your life and makes you see things in a way you never expected and that is the 'secret' in question. In effect it's the secret of an introspective happiness which allows one to love.

Deeper and deeper is about a gay man accepting and understanding his sexuality while relating his acceptance to what his parents used to say. His mother expresses freedom and acceptance while his father tries to shape him into something. He doesn't want to lose his father but rather to 'fix' their relationship and that is expressed in the line 'I'm not gonna let you slip away'. In resolution he declares that he's never going to hide his love again or have to pretend. I have a feeling it's about Christopher or at least Madonnas view on Christophers relationship with their father.

The video is most definitely about sexuality, freedom and letting go of your baggage. Effectively it's about self love and acceptance. An important theme in Madonnas entire catalogue! Of course she adopts the character herself in the video. The black and white scenes are 'the oppressive world' and the colour scenes represent 'acceptance'. if you watch the video with this in mind it should be pretty clear. The balloons represent parental expectation. Notice she carries the balloons to the club and only becomes free once she ties the balloons down and forgets about them. Towards the end of the night when the balloons are burst she sings about what her father told her. There are flashes of both black and white and colour and she becomes desperate to find the balloons and leave the club. I've actually had this exact sobering feeling before after partying. However, once she leaves she meets her desires (played by Udo Kier) and he cuts the balloons (expectation) letting them fly away. During this point she sings the line 'I can't keep from falling in love with you, though there's nothing better that I'd like to do'. It's even foretold at the beginning with 'our idols and demons will pursue us until we learn to let them go!'. So it's not just a disco video. You just only got as far as the front cover. :-)

[Guest]

Secret is a simple love song. It's the idea that somebody comes into your life and makes you see things in a way you never expected and that is the 'secret' in question. In effect it's the secret of an introspective happiness which allows one to love.

Deeper and deeper is about a gay man accepting and understanding his sexuality while relating his acceptance to what his parents used to say. His mother expresses freedom and acceptance while his father tries to shape him into something. He doesn't want to lose his father but rather to 'fix' their relationship and that is expressed in the line 'I'm not gonna let you slip away'. In resolution he declares that he's never going to hide his love again or have to pretend. I have a feeling it's about Christopher or at least Madonnas view on Christophers relationship with their father.

The video is most definitely about sexuality, freedom and letting go of your baggage. Effectively it's about self love and acceptance. An important theme in Madonnas entire catalogue! Of course she adopts the character herself in the video. The black and white scenes are 'the oppressive world' and the colour scenes represent 'acceptance'. if you watch the video with this in mind it should be pretty clear. The balloons represent parental expectation. Notice she carries the balloons to the club and only becomes free once she ties the balloons down and forgets about them. Towards the end of the night when the balloons are burst she sings about what her father told her. There are flashes of both black and white and colour and she becomes desperate to find the balloons and leave the club. I've actually had this exact sobering feeling before after partying. However, once she leaves she meets her desires (played by Udo Kier) and he cuts the balloons (expectation) letting them fly away. During this point she sings the line 'I can't keep from falling in love with you, though there's nothing better that I'd like to do'. It's even foretold at the beginning with 'our idols and demons will pursue us until we learn to let them go!'. So it's not just a disco video. You just only got as far as the front cover. :-)

[jonski43]

Interesting that Bad Girl was the intended second single but Madonna has never performed it since Saturday Night Live. She obviously considered it to be one of the standout songs.

No, the whole song being about a gay young boy..., that came fr the Ghv2 booklet and I'm pretty sure Madonna debunked that theory. Madonna actually came up with the Deeper video concept herself. There's handwritten notes by her describing what each scene should look like.

PS. nobody asked for an explanation of the Secret song - I think it was pretty obvious it wasn't about a trannie singing about his secret dick.

An early press leaflet that surfaced a few years ago confirmed that Bad Girl was originally slated to be the second single, and both BG and Erotica would be accompanied by x-rated video singles.

But I always found that leaflet to be fake IMO. The original track listing contained both Fever and Goodbye to Innoncence, which I find hard to believe because Shep made it sound like GTI was automatically dropped once Fever came into production, as told in the Erotica diaries.

Secondly, I have a hard time seeing Fever being the last song on the album. I guess the "what a lovely way to burn" bit would work as a closing, butthe whole song overall isn't closing material IMO.

It seems odd that something in her own sleeve notes is debunked by her. Wouldn't she sign this off? But yes, Fever replaced GTI as they sounded too similar.

PS. Nobody asked for an explanation of Secret. I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't about a trannie singing about his secret dick.

[acko]

Interesting that Bad Girl was the intended second single but Madonna has never performed it since Saturday Night Live. She obviously considered it to be one of the standout songs.

It seems odd that something in her own sleeve notes is debunked by her. Wouldn't she sign this off? But yes, Fever replaced GTI as they sounded too similar.

PS. Nobody asked for an explanation of Secret. I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't about a trannie singing about his secret dick.

Well it also says in the booklet Madonna did the catering 4 Guy Ritchie's film set.

So yeah...the whole booklet is a bit of 'British' humour

[Guest]

PS. Nobody asked for an explanation of Secret. I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't about a trannie singing about his secret dick.

I've heard it said that secret is about drug addiction and blah blah blah. It's pretty simple and I just wanted to say what it is about. However, your ignorance about the video to Deeper and deeper did actually require an explanation.

[Guest]

Thanks! I'll take a kiss from you anytime. :-)

[MPowered]

No, the whole song being about a gay young boy..., that came fr the Ghv2 booklet and I'm pretty sure Madonna debunked that theory. Madonna actually came up with the Deeper video concept herself. There's handwritten notes by her describing what each scene should look like. An early press leaflet that surfaced a few years ago confirmed that Bad Girl was originally slated to be the second single, and both BG and Erotica would be accompanied by x-rated video singles. But I always found that leaflet to be fake IMO. The original track listing contained both Fever and Goodbye to Innoncence, which I find hard to believe because Shep made it sound like GTI was automatically dropped once Fever came into production, as told in the Erotica diaries. Secondly, I have a hard time seeing Fever being the last song on the album. I guess the "what a lovely way to burn" bit would work as a closing, butthe whole song overall isn't closing material IMO.

Secret Garden is the perfect closing track for this album!

I can't imagine Bad Girl as the second single with an x-rated video...It would've been just weird.

Secret is a simple love song. It's the idea that somebody comes into your life and makes you see things in a way you never expected and that is the 'secret' in question. In effect it's the secret of an introspective happiness which allows one to love. Deeper and deeper is about a gay man accepting and understanding his sexuality while relating his acceptance to what his parents used to say. His mother expresses freedom and acceptance while his father tries to shape him into something. He doesn't want to lose his father but rather to 'fix' their relationship and that is expressed in the line 'I'm not gonna let you slip away'. In resolution he declares that he's never going to hide his love again or have to pretend. I have a feeling it's about Christopher or at least Madonnas view on Christophers relationship with their father. The video is most definitely about sexuality, freedom and letting go of your baggage. Effectively it's about self love and acceptance. An important theme in Madonnas entire catalogue! Of course she adopts the character herself in the video. The black and white scenes are 'the oppressive world' and the colour scenes represent 'acceptance'. if you watch the video with this in mind it should be pretty clear. The balloons represent parental expectation. Notice she carries the balloons to the club and only becomes free once she ties the balloons down and forgets about them. Towards the end of the night when the balloons are burst she sings about what her father told her. There are flashes of both black and white and colour and she becomes desperate to find the balloons and leave the club. I've actually had this exact sobering feeling before after partying. However, once she leaves she meets her desires (played by Udo Kier) and he cuts the balloons (expectation) letting them fly away. During this point she sings the line 'I can't keep from falling in love with you, though there's nothing better that I'd like to do'. It's even foretold at the beginning with 'our idols and demons will pursue us until we learn to let them go!'. So it's not just a disco video. You just only got as far as the front cover. :-)

WE SERIOUSLY NEED TO MAKE A VIDEO/SONG INTERPRETATION THREAD! This was one of the best and most plausible interpretations of this video I've ever read.

[blossom]

i been revisiting Erotica for the first time in years, and i think much as Madonna was brave back in 92, a braver move would have been to commit to it being a full double album, with almost all in their long versions. i'm pleasantly surprised at how great [and still fresh it is] all these years later, and reckon in years to come it'll be re-appraised as a classic almost up there with the likes of 'like a prayer' and 'ray of light'.

CD1

01 erotica [8.18]

02 fever [6.09]

03 waiting [5.47]

04 bad girl [6.29]

05 words [5.56]

06 deeper and deeper [5.33]

07 where life begins [5.58]

CD2

08 rain [5.25]

09 thief of hearts [4.51]

10 why's it so hard [5.23]

11 goodbye to innocence [4.53]

12 bye bye baby [3.56]

13 in this life [6.23]

14 secret garden [5.32]

CD3 [bonus]

15 erotic [sex] [5.19]

16 fever [edit one - video version] [4.09]

17 deeper and deeper [david's radio edit] [4.06]

18 waiting [remix] [4.41]

19 bad girl [edit] [4.39]

20 rain [video mix] [4.33]

21 dear father [4.13]

22 shame

23 you are the one

24 up down suite

i know there'll be better / more comprehensive tracklists out there, but if a deluxe reissue looked anything like this, i'd buy it

[Jazzy Jan]

Secret is a simple love song. It's the idea that somebody comes into your life and makes you see things in a way you never expected and that is the 'secret' in question. In effect it's the secret of an introspective happiness which allows one to love.

Deeper and deeper is about a gay man accepting and understanding his sexuality while relating his acceptance to what his parents used to say. His mother expresses freedom and acceptance while his father tries to shape him into something. He doesn't want to lose his father but rather to 'fix' their relationship and that is expressed in the line 'I'm not gonna let you slip away'. In resolution he declares that he's never going to hide his love again or have to pretend. I have a feeling it's about Christopher or at least Madonnas view on Christophers relationship with their father.

The video is most definitely about sexuality, freedom and letting go of your baggage. Effectively it's about self love and acceptance. An important theme in Madonnas entire catalogue! Of course she adopts the character herself in the video. The black and white scenes are 'the oppressive world' and the colour scenes represent 'acceptance'. if you watch the video with this in mind it should be pretty clear. The balloons represent parental expectation. Notice she carries the balloons to the club and only becomes free once she ties the balloons down and forgets about them. Towards the end of the night when the balloons are burst she sings about what her father told her. There are flashes of both black and white and colour and she becomes desperate to find the balloons and leave the club. I've actually had this exact sobering feeling before after partying. However, once she leaves she meets her desires (played by Udo Kier) and he cuts the balloons (expectation) letting them fly away. During this point she sings the line 'I can't keep from falling in love with you, though there's nothing better that I'd like to do'. It's even foretold at the beginning with 'our idols and demons will pursue us until we learn to let them go!'. So it's not just a disco video. You just only got as far as the front cover. :-)

This is a fascinating interpretation. I always wondered about the significance of the balloons in the video as they seemed to represent the whole feel and point of the song itself. This now makes mores sense. Thanks GU for posting this.

[Guest]

Secret Garden is the perfect closing track for this album!

I can't imagine Bad Girl as the second single with an x-rated video...It would've been just weird.

WE SERIOUSLY NEED TO MAKE A VIDEO/SONG INTERPRETATION THREAD! This was one of the best and most plausible interpretations of this video I've ever read.

Madonnas imagery and the wider contextual factors in her songs and performances runs so deep. That's what I love about her. Even videos as simple as Vogue are really telling a huge story. The set pieces reminiscent of art Deco Hollywood, the Horst P. Horst photography, the posturing, the lighting, the texture and the behaviours are all cohesive. That's why Madonna is a genius and the people who think she is just another Kylie are a mess. Madonna is a visionary and a multimedia artistic genius. If you make that thread I will definitely post in it. ;-)

[Guest]

This is a fascinating interpretation. I always wondered about the significance of the balloons in the video as they seemed to represent the whole feel and point of the song itself. This now makes mores sense. Thanks GU for posting this.

:-)

[Guest bluejean]

I've actually had this exact sobering feeling before after partying

Did a man cut your balloons and free you from your demons though?

[Supernatural]

The GHV2 booklet write-up is all obviously a joke. The person that introduced Madonna to kabbalah, I forget who, could that have been what Madonna wrote Secret about, or did that happen after?

[Guest bluejean]

The GHV2 booklet write-up is all obviously a joke. The person that introduced Madonna to kabbalah, I forget who, could that have been what Madonna wrote Secret about, or did that happen after?

That's what I thought too. I think I remember her saying something about that. So it may not be a song about a lover anyway but maybe she changed that to make it more universal.