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Remember when Guy O said...

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I think charts are important for an artist like Madonna, because if she doesn't chart high she will be in dinosaurs zone in the blink of an eye.

Well she didn't chart high this year and yet it's been one of the most eventful years of her entire career so that kind of throws your theory out the window.

Madonna isn't most artists. Deal.

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do you guys think it boils down to her lead single choices for her last two albums?

im not talking about charts i am talking about the fact that she doesn't like doing promo anymore.

happened with HC and now MDNA. At least with HC she did a few things here and there but it wasn't much.

her last two lead singles featured other artists.

if the lead singles had just been her alone she couldve gone out and promoted and performed the hell out the lead single

just like she did with Hung Up, American Life, Music, Frozen, etc

since its kind of difficult to go out and perform a lead single with other feature artists on a promo tour, unless they do one time peformance

of the lead single (GMAYL: Super Bowl/4 Minutes: Roseland Ballroom) .

she could have scrapped promo for first single and gone out to promote the second singles like Give it 2 Me

and Girl Gone WIld, imagine kick ass performances of both songs on a tv show or an award show?

she did it for Don't Tell Me and The Power of Good-bye with amazing results. Heck, she even performed Drowned World a few times in Europe.

I really hope her next lead single is her alone doing what she does best and takes enough time to record an album.

no rush.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I hope Guy O and company will learn from their mistakes for the next album.

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Guy O is only good at business deals. I don't even think he is good at scoping out talent (like he did for Maverick) anymore.

One reason why Confessions era was successful IMO is that she had Guy O and Angela Becker sharing management duties.

I really think Guy hasn't a single clue how to promote work beyond touring and product placement.

I hope with the next album she thinks outside the box and tries to just make music. She usually gets a better response

from the general public when she a) feels the need to prove herself & comes across as her usual confident, commanding self.

and b) doesn't TRY to have a hit.

Those days may be over, they may not. I guess we'll see. But I doubt that Interscope will continue to pour money into a product their getting a

small return on.

She spoke in 2009 about "reinventing the wheel" to get her music out there. This release, AS MUCH AS I LOVE THIS ERA and the ALBUM itself,

seems to be a wheel rolling like a square.

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She really needs to put a big effort on the next album, not rushed, no more features, a big hit like Hung Up / 4 Minutes and a nice photoshoot.

Perform at the Grammys or VMA's/EMA's and then go on tour.

I guess that the new album will be here on Spring 2014.

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I admit this is the very first Madonna album that i only listened to the first days. Some songs are great, but the whole package is unatracttive to me. That means that these songs are the very first that i don't know by heart. I even can recite the entire 'Spanish Lesson' or 'Incredible' from Hard Candy and and i couldn't sing the first verse of 'Im Addicted" even though i like that song a thousand times more! MDNA is simply wrong in my opinion. Of course, it's only mine and other people can enjoy it a lot.

I entirely agree with this.I was totally wowed by I'm Addicted when I first heard but I've listened to the album so little that even that track hasn't stayed with me and I don't know it - or any of them - off by heart, in the way I do with all of Madonna's other albums. Personally, I feel as if most of the songs are just OK - but I was expecting more than just 'OK 'from Madonna. A LOT more. And I think the public was too. The album simply sounds like a collection of songs with nothing to really unify them and that's possibly why this album has been such a hard sell (Is she the angry divorcee, or the wild girl on the dancefloor?).

Even without William Orbit's comments I can easily believe that Madonna was far less invested in MDNA than she was in her more well regarded albums; just listen to how insipid and uninspired she sounds on Turn Up The Radio. I get a similar sense from Girl Gone Wild where again she fails to really sound convincing - they could both be songs by any pop chick, really, and yet these were chosen as single to showcase the album!

I can't help but wonder if the LiveNation deal has eaten into her recording creativity. In the old days, she decided to go on the road after her albums were released, depending on what else she was doing at the time. Now though, she knows in advance that she will definitely tour so there's a feeling of a thrown together album with bought in talent (Justin, Timberland, Pharrell, Nicky, M.I.A) before she gets down to her main priority of preparing to hit arenas and stadiums for months and months at a time. The legacies from both the Hard Candy and MDNA eras is the fact that the former produced a record breaking tour, and the latter, a creative and controversial tour and yet neither of these albums will be remembered fondly by the public, if they're remembered at all, which I really don't think they will be.

Having said all this, I do think Madonna still has it in her to create great music and we only have to see what's just happened to Robbie Williams - a star who seemed washed up - release a single that the public like, and in spite of not getting any airplay on Radio One because they consider him to be 'too old', it zooms to number one. So if Robbie can do that, then Madonna definitely can. She just needs to start caring again - really caring - about the music, not just focus on her money-spinning tours.

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She does care about the charts because she released GGW and TUTR- the most generic songs on the album.

I believe she will make another amazing album next time. She went through a marriage breakdown and a divorce the last two albums, so I think this has affected her in more ways than one.

The sad thing about MDNA is half the songs are fucking brilliant and the other half are pretty throwaway. I think there was potential for the album to be super tight but she had a deadline with the whole superbowl-straight-to-tour thing. She was already working on the album when she agreed to do the superbowl yeah? Seems like she kind of added some poor songs towards the end (or never got the chance to make them better) because she ran out of time.

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Her hits have been more and more sparse even in her most guaranteed markets for about 10 years now. In the past 10 years, only HU and 4M have been massive, worldwide hits. All the others have been "minor hits" or flops and she has released a lot of good singles during that time. Obviously she would've sold more with traditional promo, but it would've been peanuts in the grand scheme of things. The #2 selling album in the world this year (One Direction) so far has sold a little over 3 million, MDNA has sold a little over 1.5 million. That's such a small window, why even focus on that?? And let's be realistic here for a moment, do we REALLY expect Madonna to outsell the latest "boy band" that is hot with the kids at the moment?? I don't think so. She wasn't outselling NKOTB in '89 or BSB in '99 either. I don't care how much promo she does. Having seen the tour, I DEFINITELY think her time and energy was better spent putting the MDNA tour together than putting in a ton of effort to promote an album that may sell another paltry million more copies when all is said and done. More than the "hits" of the past decade, I think it's her reputation as a phenomenal live performer that has kept the ticket sales brisk for her. Let's face it, even hot on the heels of the ROL/Music "career resurrection" fans were still complaining about lack of hits on DWT.....same with CT. I think most casual fans go for the classics and the experience as a whole, not necessarily the current hits.

Die another day...

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She does care about the charts because she released GGW and TUTR- the most generic songs on the album.

It's not only her who influences the single releases. It's mainly the record label.

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Then they're dumb

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Well she didn't chart high this year and yet it's been one of the most eventful years of her entire career so that kind of throws your theory out the window.

Madonna isn't most artists. Deal.

I'm sorry, but i think that this year, being incredibly eventful, hasn't been positive for Madonna. It's being a great year for fans, but that's not what i'm talking about. Madonna has had the biggest flops in terms of singles, news of MDNA plummeting in the charts made headlines (and it made headlines because it was news, because that didn't happen to her before) and even though the tour is being a succesful one, she's been on the news because she flashed a tit, annoyed Marie Le Penn, "fans" complained at Olympia, shows guns... In fact, i think that she really needs to have a really succesful single for her next album if she wants to sustain the high numbers of people atending her shows.

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Guest bluejean

I think she either needs a hit or she needs to go back to doing more well known songs in her shows. Many big artists sell out tours without having a current hit in the charts but certainly, they don't do self indulgent setlists like Madonna does. Not to say I don't like the setlist but that's just a reality.

As for this album not being of the usual standard, I think some songs are (Gang Bang, Love Spent, Masterpiece, I'm Addicted) but there's a fair bit of filler. We DID get more songs than we usually get, 3 proper music videos and one of her greatest tours. And she looked amazing throughout. So I don't feel too bothered about a lack of hit singles to be honest. I'm satisfied. But then I'm not one of these people who care whether Madonna is popular or not. It doesn't effect my opinion of her as an artist.

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I'm sorry, but i think that this year, being incredibly eventful, hasn't been positive for Madonna. It's being a great year for fans, but that's not what i'm talking about. Madonna has had the biggest flops in terms of singles, news of MDNA plummeting in the charts made headlines (and it made headlines because it was news, because that didn't happen to her before) and even though the tour is being a succesful one, she's been on the news because she flashed a tit, annoyed Marie Le Penn, "fans" complained at Olympia, shows guns... In fact, i think that she really needs to have a really succesful single for her next album if she wants to sustain the high numbers of people atending her shows.

Doesn't change what I said. She's been getting bad press for 6 or 7 years now. You were saying the same EXACT thing in 2008, I haven't forgotten :chuckle: Big deal. At least this time they were talking about her music/ tour (indirectly as it may have been) and not adoptions, divorces, or plastic surgery. And getting on the news for protesting about Pussy Riot or Marine Le Pen are not bad things. This year has only been bad for Madonna if you disliked her to begin with. I think it's been a fantastic, brave, and very relevant year for her.

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Ok, rant coming up...

What has worked:

  • selling tour tickets right after the SuperBowl, and portraying an incredibly tame Madonna on stage who happily sang her classics;
  • releasing Give Me All Your Luvin' single and video roughly at the same time;
  • getting a second single out soon after the first, as it has become customary;

But it's not just about sales. Sales help you drive profits now, but without the appropiate "buzz," story, mythology around an album/era, any long-term success is put in jeopardy... Now they're gonna have to work that much harder if they want to sell albums or tour tickets next time around, unless they are banking on her doing one last Greatest Hits tour and call it quits. Otherwise, they have A LOT of making up to do.

And on that front, her management team has objectively failed with this promo. They never knew how to tell the story of MDNA or who to tell it to. Until the tour began, they also did a lousy job packaging "Madonna," the character. It's what Karbatal and others here are talking about.

Was MDNA supposed to be a happy album, as first claimed, or a fucked up divorce-album, as it became apparent? Was it supposed to be artistically challenging or pure pop? Was it Top 40 stuff or club stuff, and why wasn't it handled accordingly? Between the tame SuperBowl presentation and the crazy bitch that showed up on Girl Gone Wild, how did they want Madonna to appear to the general public? Was she the party chick showing up at the Miami Festival or the tame bore that gave that 20/20 or Dateline interview, geared towards boring moms?

This is a big part of why people don't know she has an album out; or why they think she's scrambling for attention during the tour; or why they think the music is too bland or too violent or too boring or too hyper. It's because her promo team has not presented a consistent experience about MDNA. The only ones who find consistency and pleasure in this experience is us, and that's because we have put the time and effort and love into it. (By the way, besides this rant, I'm loving all of my Madonna 2012).

What didn't work, in particular:

meaningless brand deals with the wrong kind of product associations, as in that stupid Miami festival appearance and the ridiculous series of Smirnoff nightmares we've been subjected to;

not having twitter chats in different time zones;

letting Perez Hilton post snippets of MDNA three weeks in advance of album release, as opposed to streaming the ENTIRE album via SoundCloud or Spotify and letting SERIOUS media outlets pick up the story and eat it up;

not doing specific TV promo in major markets while on tour. it's unconceivable that she spent a few nights in the U.K. and did jack shit to promote the tour and album;

not having quick reflexes to "re-launch" MDNA with Girl Gone Wild after they realized that Give Me All Your Luvin' was plummeting in the charts, and then taking FIVE MONTHS to release a third single which continued to reinforce the idea that her album is not musically adventurous (her last successful reinventions have all been constructed around this idea).

Ok, bye.

AMEN!!! I agree with everything you said! I think the work between Madonna herself and her management is what caused the problem! I think Madonna wanted MDNA to be that kind of divorce album, that it is! The main theme of MDNA is clearly shown during the tour. It's about finding your way through the darkness, about enlightenment, about women in modern society, etc...It's what Madonna is all about!

I think her management didn't want her to go the path of making MDNA look like it was that "fucked up divorce album", which would've caused a lot of controversy. Imagine "Gang Bang" being released as the first single with a violent video and GGW following it as the second single! They probably thought it would be "Erotica meets American Life meets Like a Prayer" they were very cautious with that. The thing is: That's what the public wanted to see! They need controversy in order to report about it! They released the most radio-friendly songs that didn't reflect the theme of MDNA. The single releases are an absolute contrast to what the majority of the songs on MDNA sound like.

There was no promo tour as well as no TV performances, except the Superbowl which only featured GMAYL, her worst lead single ever, in order to show the public what they can expect from MDNA! They thought the internet could make up for all of this, which it doesn't! Yes, there is a lot of promo happening on the internet, but it's consistent and doesn't include only two twitter chats by M and one live concert, which was just a tour snippet (featuring only three songs from MDNA!). M needs her own twitter account and she needs to get her ass on the net! If she wants to be succesful among the younger generation, she will have to be on the internet at least a little bit. I mean, even motherfuckin' Cher has a twitter account (eventhough I don't understand WTF she is saying in her tweets! :laugh: )

So there goes your un-traditional promo! M needs to get rid off Guy O. he's a loser just like the other "Guy"...her management needs to stop trying so hard to give her a radio hit! It won't fuckin' happen! They'll never get one if they try so hard! They need to focus on M as an artist not a mainstream flop princess like Katy Perry or Brit! The public will appreciate her being more artistic, edgy, like she was during the ROL era. ROL was not a commercial album at all and it was praised by the public and critics! It was her resurrection as an artist! They need to focus on that!

AMEN!!! I agree with everything you said! I think the work between Madonna herself and her management is what caused the problem! I think Madonna wanted MDNA to be that kind of divorce album, that it is! The main theme of MDNA is clearly shown during the tour. It's about finding your way through the darkness, about enlightenment, about women in modern society, etc...It's what Madonna is all about!

I think her management didn't want her to go the path of making MDNA look like it was that "fucked up divorce album", which would've caused a lot of controversy. Imagine "Gang Bang" being released as the first single with a violent video and GGW following it as the second single! They probably thought it would be "Erotica meets American Life meets Like a Prayer" they were very cautious with that. The thing is: That's what the public wanted to see! They need controversy in order to report about it! They released the most radio-friendly songs that didn't reflect the theme of MDNA. The single releases are an absolute contrast to what the majority of the songs on MDNA sound like.

There was no promo tour as well as no TV performances, except the Superbowl which only featured GMAYL, her worst lead single ever, in order to show the public what they can expect from MDNA! They thought the internet could make up for all of this, which it doesn't! Yes, there is a lot of promo happening on the internet, but it's consistent and doesn't include only two twitter chats by M and one live concert, which was just a tour snippet (featuring only three songs from MDNA!). M needs her own twitter account and she needs to get her ass on the net! If she wants to be succesful among the younger generation, she will have to be on the internet at least a little bit. I mean, even motherfuckin' Cher has a twitter account (eventhough I don't understand WTF she is saying in her tweets! :laugh: )

So there goes your un-traditional promo! M needs to get rid off Guy O. he's a loser just like the other "Guy"...her management needs to stop trying so hard to give her a radio hit! It won't fuckin' happen! They'll never get one if they try so hard! They need to focus on M as an artist not a mainstream flop princess like Katy Perry or Brit! The public will appreciate her being more artistic, edgy, like she was during the ROL era. ROL was not a commercial album at all and it was praised by the public and critics! It was her resurrection as an artist! They need to focus on that!

Music videos are supposed to be an artistic interpretation of a song and that's what also should focus on. Producing great music videos that will get people talk about, in fact they did produce good music videos this era. She could also film music videos for songs that aren't even singles. Artists nowadays do that all the time. Look at Beyonce, her album flopped and she got pregnant, still she produced music videos for at least 7 songs from the album and did live performances and TV appereances! Now that's what I call un-traditional promo!

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Guest bluejean

I wonder what the single releases would have been like if Bucket wasn't the lead single. Probably Turn Up The Radio followed by Girl Gone Wild Wild followed by Superstar.

Honestly, I think it should have gone:

Gang Bang

Girl Gone Wild

I'm Addicted

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Doesn't change what I said. She's been getting bad press for 6 or 7 years now. You were saying the same EXACT thing in 2008, I haven't forgotten :chuckle: Big deal. At least this time they were talking about her music/ tour (indirectly as it may have been) and not adoptions, divorces, or plastic surgery. And getting on the news for protesting about Pussy Riot or Marine Le Pen are not bad things. This year has only been bad for Madonna if you disliked her to begin with. I think it's been a fantastic, brave, and very relevant year for her.

You are right that i told the same things for HC era. Maybe Madona should come and tell me to trip the station change the channel :( The good thing about being a Madonna fan is that even when you think she's having a bad year, you are sure that many things will be great. I recall telling that to a friend at work when MDNA was about to leak. He told me "uh, the album will be as bad as GMAYL" and i told him "even if it's bad, at least 4 or 5 songs will be great". And that was right, haha.

Well, you know people that we are only discussing this things over and over, but it's a way to spend time, at least for me. To be fair, i don't pay much atention to charts either :chuckle: nor even think about Madonna's success much.

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I wonder what the single releases would have been like if Bucket wasn't the lead single. Probably Turn Up The Radio followed by Girl Gone Wild Wild followed by Superstar.

Honestly, I think it should have gone:

Gang Bang

Girl Gone Wild

I'm Addicted

Masterpiece - december

Gang Bang - january

Girl Gone Wild - february

I'm Addicted - may

Turn up the radio - august (would do nothin, but i liked the video!)

Love Spent - december

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Die another day...

Oh yeah! lol

I forgot about that one! :)

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I'm sorry, but i think that this year, being incredibly eventful, hasn't been positive for Madonna. It's being a great year for fans, but that's not what i'm talking about. Madonna has had the biggest flops in terms of singles, news of MDNA plummeting in the charts made headlines (and it made headlines because it was news, because that didn't happen to her before) and even though the tour is being a succesful one, she's been on the news because she flashed a tit, annoyed Marie Le Penn, "fans" complained at Olympia, shows guns... In fact, i think that she really needs to have a really succesful single for her next album if she wants to sustain the high numbers of people atending her shows.

On the other hand......

-she has the most watched moment in US television history with her SB performance

-her album went to number one in 30 or 40 something countries

-her album is currently among the top 10 best selling in the world for the year

-she scored yet another US top 10 Gold single

-the album has gone Gold in the US

-until recently, reviews for the album were almost unanimously great...it's only until it "underperformed" that people started changing their tune.

-her "side endeavors" (clothes, perfumes etc) are reportedly doing really well

-she won a Golden Globe for Masterpiece

-MDNA tour is set to become one of the most successful tours of all time

Perhaps I overlook the "flop" singles thing because here in the US she's been having flop singles for years now and it really makes no difference in anything....she HAS indeed made the news for "flopping" with her albums before, maybe not EXACTLY what happened with MDNA but AL was drug through the mud pretty badly and called out for it's "flopness" long after the era was done.....and Madonna flashing tit, pissing off politicians and pissing off her "fans"?? Ummm.....those are bad things?? lol. Sounds like old times to me.

I highly doubt Madonna and Guy are lamenting about the state of her career at this point.

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Doesn't change what I said. She's been getting bad press for 6 or 7 years now. You were saying the same EXACT thing in 2008, I haven't forgotten :chuckle: Big deal. At least this time they were talking about her music/ tour (indirectly as it may have been) and not adoptions, divorces, or plastic surgery. And getting on the news for protesting about Pussy Riot or Marine Le Pen are not bad things. This year has only been bad for Madonna if you disliked her to begin with. I think it's been a fantastic, brave, and very relevant year for her.

Couldn't agree more.

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I wonder what the single releases would have been like if Bucket wasn't the lead single. Probably Turn Up The Radio followed by Girl Gone Wild Wild followed by Superstar.

Honestly, I think it should have gone:

Gang Bang

Girl Gone Wild

I'm Addicted

Turn Up The Radio at the Superbowl would have been a much bigger hit than Top 10 in America. I would have chosen Love Spent for 2nd single because it defines the album. Gang Bang could have been the throw away 3rd single no one buys but it would have had an amazing video and remixes and it would've become the HN of this era. GGW should have been the Candy Shop of this era. Tour opener but not a single.

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if there is someone to blame about anything us Madonna...not Guy. Through different interviews we can tell he is pushing her for more promo but she will say no. she has mentioned this many times...she just doesnt care that much about promo cause she has her priorities straight (her kids are first)

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Turn Up The Radio at the Superbowl would have been a much bigger hit than Top 10 in America. I would have chosen Love Spent for 2nd single because it defines the album. Gang Bang could have been the throw away 3rd single no one buys but it would have had an amazing video and remixes and it would've become the HN of this era. GGW should have been the Candy Shop of this era. Tour opener but not a single.

I wholeheartedly agree, although GGW must, in any universe, be released as a single at some point. With twenty extra minutes rethinking one or two of those horrendous lyrics, it would've been fine.

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W.E promo had an effect, she shouldve talked about the album more. Guy shouldnt be a yes man and let her put a couple of duds on MDNA. I loved the ballads, I dont know how they managed to fuck up masterpiece, I cant even remember if it was released.

Im addicted or gang bang not being released is a crime. Turn up the radio is cute, great live but not as strong as some of the other tracks.

Wasnt it Guy who called the Benassi brothers for innovative dance sound?

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She does care about the charts because she released GGW and TUTR- the most generic songs on the album.

No, its the opposite. They thought those would be hits because they are super generic.

She said specifically that GB would be not good for radio.

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No, its the opposite. They thought those would be hits because they are super generic.

She said specifically that GB would be not good for radio.

If only she knew that it's not about being radio-friendly generic anymore! I mean dubstep and club sounds are getting more popular now! She should start to become more innovative again and stop trying to be mainstream! Ray of Light was so different than what was popular at that time and that's why it was so sucessful and earned her so many awards!

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Doesn't change what I said. She's been getting bad press for 6 or 7 years now. You were saying the same EXACT thing in 2008, I haven't forgotten :chuckle: Big deal. At least this time they were talking about her music/ tour (indirectly as it may have been) and not adoptions, divorces, or plastic surgery. And getting on the news for protesting about Pussy Riot or Marine Le Pen are not bad things. This year has only been bad for Madonna if you disliked her to begin with. I think it's been a fantastic, brave, and very relevant year for her.

:clap:

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