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Martin Solveig on Madonna: she took the lead


elijah

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I feel like every so many months we have to have this argument again on the boards, but I suppose that's just a microcosm of M's entire career. Throughout, people have never wanted to give her proper credit for what she brings to the table. And by "people," I mean critics, journalists, and the general public -- her collaborators and her fans (on the whole) tend to recognize her musical talents. I am a little taken aback when fans underplay her significance in the creative process, but ... anyway ...

She was listed as the Executive Producer for the Timbaland/Timberlake/Danja collaborations, but a co-producer for the Pharrell ones, so I think she worked with them differently (working more closely with Pharrell than the others). Justin has talked about her involvement in the actual studio when it came to composing "4 Minutes", although we've heard little about their other collaborations (aside from Justin talking about her journal of lyrics/ideas etc.). I think you're completely right about the knob-turning in this case.

And I'm not sure that's the way she preferred it? She looked all chummy with JT and all, but I remember one interview video series (annoyingly separate one-minute clips or something) that had her, JT, and Timbaland outside the Verizon mobile recording studio ... It was to promote that exclusive mix Timbaland did of "4 Minutes" (which is still stuck on my old flip phone!) ... there was some interaction between Timbaland and Madonna that was weird. He was kinda like "uh, back off, woman, I'll go remix this and come back to you" (paraphrasing) and when she tried to be her (well-documented) self about it (i.e., controlling and hands-on), he was like, "I'll LET YOU KNOW WHEN IT'S FINISHED." And it was just awkward. I think there was a follow-up question by the interviewer, asking if that's how things went in the studio, and she and JT basically said, "yeah, he's like a mad scientist; we'd be huddled in the corner looking over lyrics and he'd be off in his own world with his headphones on, and you'd know when he got something good going on, because he'd play it back for you." I don't know -- it was something like that. Honestly, it was kind of odd to me, and for M, I'm surprised it wasn't off-putting. (And considering how M revealed later that Pharrell made her cry during his sessions with her -- it just sounds like it was not the smoothest process creating Hard Candy.)

Still, JT gave M props for all the lyrical ideas she had going on in her notebooks. And the surfacing of primordial versions of songs like "Infinity" [Give It 2 Me] and "Is This Love? (Bon D'Accord)" [Voices] demonstrates that much of her ideas were in the mix from the very beginning. (We know, too, that "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" predates this album all the way back to, at least, 2004 for the RIT.) Madonna credited JT and Timbaland with getting her to "sing in a different pocket" -- i.e., delivering words in a different rhythm than she was normally accustomed to doing.

What makes you think that? I don't think it would've. It just doesn't bring anything new to the table. Besides, Europe has almost always been very open to new Madonna material and this time, they clearly were not.

I do agree somewhat that "Girl Gone Wild" could've been a bigger hit (even for Madonna or anyone else) had it been the lead single, but GMAYL kinda poisoned the pop well. I still think these two tracks are not very strong Madonna singles and that is why they failed so resoundingly.

I don't know. ... It's hard to debate hypotheticals like this, but I agree that GGW would have fared better if released by another (read: younger) artist than GMAYL would have. In a vacuum, I'd say GMAYL wouldn't have been a huge hit for someone else (even though I think it's pleasant and listenable, though certainly not the strongest M single of her career) -- BUT then again, I wouldn't have thought that some of the sound-alikes would have been hits, either ... like the Avril Lavigne song some thought she was imitating. I forget the other song that people were comparing it to at the time -- maybe the obvious, other Solveig songs like "Hello" (or "Big in Japan"?) ... I don't know -- it just gets tricky to say. I had heard "Hello" but I'd not heard the Avril song. GMAYL isn't necessarily as snappy and indie as "Hello" -- but I wouldn't have pegged that Avril song for a hit, either. So... who knows. Maybe people are right about GMAYL having hit potential for someone else. Certainly with Nicki and M.I.A. involved, it could have retained some crossover appeal.

In the end, GMAYL is a decent enough hit in that it served its purpose for the Super Bowl and charted as a top ten in the U.S. No, it won't be remembered among her greats and it may have an asterisk next to it due to the help from Clear Channel, but it boosts her overall tally. Had it been described as a "buzz single" and GGW was the technical "first single," it still wouldn't matter, ultimately. (And it could get even murkier if you figure in "Masterpiece" which preceded both of them.) I doubt anyone would trade in the whole Super Bowl performance just so we could have had a different lead single. And yet, while TUTR is inoffensive and could have taken GMAYL spot in the performance, it wouldn't have had the cheerleader imagery, nor the guest spots for Nicki and M.I.A. -- and TUTR has a summer vibe rather than a "February in Indianapolis vibe." I just think she chose what would be integrated smoothly for the show, and that wouldn't have been TUTR (certainly not GGW for playing it safe with the NFL).

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Guest bluejean

Madonna's as depended on her collaborators as anyone else in pop. That doesn't mean she's a puppet but she isn't a self sufficient recording artist either. Do you believe Madonna has instrumental compositions she composed from scratch lying around? She voices an opinion. She touches the nobs as Martin says. She gives orders and direction. I believe she's very involved but not to the extent of saying she's so separate from everyone else. All the others need their collaborators in extraordinary ways. It varies but it really isn't that different except in our perceptions of the non-Madonna artist.

Rubbish.

Madonna is no George Michael or Prince but she certainly is far more involved in her music than Rihanna, Britney, Katy Perry, whoever else. And we have heard demos of hers that she has composed from scratch from pre-fame as well as recent. The original demo of Lucky Star she did on her own. There is so much evidence that proves what you are saying wrong. Rihanna and Britney don't even write their songs at all, don't you think Madonna is a tad seperate from them?

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I don't know. ... It's hard to debate hypotheticals like this, but I agree that GGW would have fared better if released by another (read: younger) artist than GMAYL would have. In a vacuum, I'd say GMAYL wouldn't have been a huge hit for someone else (even though I think it's pleasant and listenable, though certainly not the strongest M single of her career) -- BUT then again, I wouldn't have thought that some of the sound-alikes would have been hits, either ... like the Avril Lavigne song some thought she was imitating. I forget the other song that people were comparing it to at the time -- maybe the obvious, other Solveig songs like "Hello" (or "Big in Japan"?) ... I don't know -- it just gets tricky to say. I had heard "Hello" but I'd not heard the Avril song. GMAYL isn't necessarily as snappy and indie as "Hello" -- but I wouldn't have pegged that Avril song for a hit, either. So... who knows. Maybe people are right about GMAYL having hit potential for someone else. Certainly with Nicki and M.I.A. involved, it could have retained some crossover appeal.

In the end, GMAYL is a decent enough hit in that it served its purpose for the Super Bowl and charted as a top ten in the U.S. No, it won't be remembered among her greats and it may have an asterisk next to it due to the help from Clear Channel, but it boosts her overall tally. Had it been described as a "buzz single" and GGW was the technical "first single," it still wouldn't matter, ultimately. (And it could get even murkier if you figure in "Masterpiece" which preceded both of them.) I doubt anyone would trade in the whole Super Bowl performance just so we could have had a different lead single. And yet, while TUTR is inoffensive and could have taken GMAYL spot in the performance, it wouldn't have had the cheerleader imagery, nor the guest spots for Nicki and M.I.A. -- and TUTR has a summer vibe rather than a "February in Indianapolis vibe." I just think she chose what would be integrated smoothly for the show, and that wouldn't have been TUTR (certainly not GGW for playing it safe with the NFL).

As grateful as I am for the entire Super Bowl performance and success of it (yet another massive jewel in her media crown), I am somewhat relived to know we probably won't have a major, mainstream show dictating what the first single will be next time. I think to mold the launch of this project on the NFL's event of the year probably stunted the expression of this album. I am not sure I can form a convincing argument that MDNA would've been more commercially successful if she hadn't done it because it obviously gave her the biggest exposure for a new album since the Sex brouhaha. However, I think if I had my druthers, we would've gotten "Gang Bang" as the lead single for this record. Coming off a divorce and what not, I think it is more representative of her state of mind and the album itself - and in some ways and it would've been an aggressive, shocking statement. Obviously she couldn't perform this song or "Girl Gone Wild" at the Super Bowl hence we got something harmless and easy-pleasy.

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Guest bluejean

The Superbowl ruined the whole album imo.

But it didn't have to. There's no reason why she couldn't have performed 4 classic songs at the Superbowl which would have built up her profile. Then launched the new single Gang Bang afew weeks later to maximum hype/exposure with a "shocking" video. I appreciate some people like GMAYL buy it really was a turd of a single, so bad that even the best promotion did nothing for it or the album. Considering the exposure the album sales were dismal really.

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The Superbowl didn't ruin the album. It didn't really do anything for the album to be honest. They made a mistake by not promoting the album commercially side by side to the halftime show. They could have aired a MDNA commercial during the show, the album cover could have popped on the backdrops at the end of LAP.

No one knew M had an album coming out nor did they know there was a new single was out as well. (Except for the gays)

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How does it stack up against other releases this year in the US in terms of units scanned? I wonder if people will remember to redeem their bundled copies now that the US leg of the tour has started? There are hundreds of thousands of copies still to be redeemed over there.

Madonna loves "Gang Bang", but she never saw it as a single - she said herself that she didn't think it would get played on the radio (and ultimately, she still wants people to be exposed to her music in that way, so she's going to choose singles that she thinks will get some exposure).

As for GMAYL, it did well enough in Europe. It was #1 on the Italian airplay chart for weeks and was only kept off the top by a novelty single. The UK ignored it, but it would probably have scraped a Top 10 peak if the iTunes pre-orders had been allowed to count. TUTR, on the other hand, has been ignored, even by the ever-loyal Italy. I might have already said that, though (I'm getting a sense of dejavu here!).

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Guest bluejean

The Superbowl didn't ruin the album. It didn't really do anything for the album to be honest. They made a mistake by not promoting the album commercially side by side to the halftime show. They could have aired a MDNA commercial during the show, the album cover could have popped on the backdrops at the end of LAP.

No one knew M had an album coming out nor did they know there was a new single was out as well. (Except for the gays)

Well I meant in terms of it dictating the (terrible) choice of lead single. Surely people knew she had a new album coming out? It was mentioned in all the articles/reports and she sang a new song from it in the performance. And that song had a massive push on radio in that first week.

I personally thought the promo was done perfectly but let down by the fact the song totally sucked.

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The promo was done perfectly. I remember everyone here was jumping like little girls when we found GMAYL was going to be played on US radio every hour. Yeah, it didn't help that the song wasn't the best choice for a single, the audience would have embraced it more if it were better. But after that first week at radio, there was nothing to back it up. That was probably the biggest error for GMAYL (besides it being released as a single.) If they didn't wait a month to released the remixes, that could have boosted it's performance after the superbowl. And if Madonna had performed the song just once on live TV again the following week, that would have helped it some more. But then again, no one really knew about a new single, and no one really reads those press reports/articles. It wasn't really headlined here in the states that Madonna was going to be performing a new song at that show.

Whatever LiveNations/Guy O's/Interscope's plan was with that first single, it didn't really work. Whether they used a different song or not, who knows if it would have performed better. I use to be so crazy about Madonna's chart performance in the states, now I could give a rats ass. Yeah, I would love for another #1 single, but sometimes you just need to think realistically about the situation.

In the end, hope everyone in M's team can look back at this project and ask themselves,"what worked and what didn't" and "what can we do better for the next album."

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<p>

The Superbowl ruined the whole album imo.

I actually think the Superbowl was the saving grace of this album. Sure GMAYL flopped everywhere, but it did manage to cling on for dear life in the top 10 [or top 15, can't remember] on the U.S charts for a very short period, i think the Superbowl exposure was responsible for that.

Also, she did manage to get a big influx of pre-orders of MDNA that week as well.If we had no superbowl, GMAYL wouldn't have made it anywhere as high as it did on the U.S. charts and the pre-orders for the album may not have been as big as they were.

Also, the Superbowl seemed to be the one true moment of this era where the world was on her side. Press loved it, so did viewers, since then she's had a bit of a mud slinging experience with this era in the media.She should have just released MDNA a week after the Superbowl or something tbh. It still would have been front loaded and may have dropped off a tiny bit slower on the charts, but it was a good opportunity for her to really get the album some MASSIVE exposure as opposed to just showcasing a poorly recieved new single.But oh well.

As for her MDNA singles doing better if sung by other acts, it's possible, Give Me A Bucket sounds like Carley Rae Jespen, so maybe she could have made it a hit, or maybe Katy Perry, who let's face it, could read the dictionary with no music for 4 minutes and it would go #1 :lol:Really though, isn't that the curse for all aging female popstars, if someone younger and hotter sang it, it would be a hit. No biggie imo.

As a side note, as much as i dislike Give Me A Bucket, it does work well live, it looked and sounded good during the Superbowl and on her current tour. It's a good live track.

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^ Well, this took some digging... I looked for it and didn't see it, but Google helped me discover it again. Guess I should have just started there in the first place:

http://forums.madonn...showtopic=38653

Spot On Holiday Guy! And thank you peter for bringing this back. Now it all makes sense...even in the MDNA tour setlist...

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The Martin Solveig tracks are the weakest imo. And Orbit the strongest but that isn't surprising, this is the guy who did the Ray of Light album.

I actually really really like the Chris Brown song 'Don't Wake Me Up,' I think Madonna doing that could have been great. A lead single for sure. It's better than GGW or TUTR by miles.

that song is shit masked my excessive autotune

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Regardless of what people say about the sloppy choices with regards to promotion or the choosing of songs, this era is the best Madonna era since the 90s IMO. Confessions came close but it was hampered down by (what I thought) were some lazy videos after Hung Up. This time it's the complete package.

Music, check. Imagery, check. Legendary TV moments, check. Cheeky attitude, check. Beauty, check. The best tour ever, check. Her displaying her massive balls of steel over and over and over again and not caring if it makes her a villain, check.

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i would have loved her to bring back Mirwais & Stuart Price on the same album. Those two together could have produce some magical tracks for M.

Price yes, Mirwais no. Price may be about her best producer and mostly stays out of the way and lets the song shine. Mirwais good but like Orbit a one trick pony, I don't like the numbing overproduction of either but fortunately they were aligned to great songs. Most of her production has been first rate really, one of her greatest talents is that instinct for great production.

The Martin Solveig tracks are the weakest imo. And Orbit the strongest but that isn't surprising, this is the guy who did the Ray of Light album. I actually really really like the Chris Brown song 'Don't Wake Me Up,' I think Madonna doing that could have been great. A lead single for sure. It's better than GGW or TUTR by miles.

Yeah and he should have stayed there. He should be shot for that Sinner track, I can't believe we got those same 90s beats on that song, I wanted to stab someone. Falling Free was great but didn't Solveig also do Turn Up The Radio. I suppose The Demolition Crew stole the show.

As for Hard Candy, didn't Madonna get no production credits on that? What was that all about? I guess superstar producers can wangle credits easier or refuse to do it if they don't have full creative control.

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Regardless of what people say about the sloppy choices with regards to promotion or the choosing of songs, this era is the best Madonna era since the 90s IMO. Confessions came close but it was hampered down by (what I thought) were some lazy videos after Hung Up. This time it's the complete package.

Music, check. Imagery, check. Legendary TV moments, check. Cheeky attitude, check. Beauty, check. The best tour ever, check. Her displaying her massive balls of steel over and over and over again and not caring if it makes her a villain, check.

i totally agree!!!

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If we wanna hear a good example of how M works , its the Demo from Broken and the oakenfold production

She probably wrote the first with a help of a guitarist and did the melodies

the second stage is the production where oakenfold transformed the track into a dance one

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Well, no matter who she choses to work with for her next album, one thing for sure, she should pick a non'commercial producer, someone not very famous yet, like when she worked with Orbit for ROL, Mirwais for Music & Price for COADF. It's obviously the best plan for her, each time she picked a producer who was not in the spotlight, they created a kind of new sound, the album was a success and she was a trendsetter (ROL, Music, COADF). On the opposite, everytime she picked someone who was already well known in the charts (Timbaland, Solveig (he was already huge in Europe) it doens't work, intead of creating a new sound they continue the sound of the famous producer, she kinda follow the trend instead of creating one and the album is not very well recieved (HC, MDNA). Same for working again with some previous producer (Mirwais for AL, Orbit for MDNA) it doesn't work either. Madonna gets the very best, sucks the maximum of creativity of each producer for one album only, she needs fresh blood for each new project to be on top of her creativity.

Really there is one and only solution for M ; underground producer + create a new sound together = huge success + trend setters.

People have been used, want & expect Madonna to be innovative and give the world the new sound of the next 4 years everytime she releases an album. It's very flattering.

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Well, no matter who she choses to work with for her next album, one thing for sure, she should pick a non'commercial producer, someone not very famous yet, like when she worked with Orbit for ROL, Mirwais for Music & Price for COADF. It's obviously the best plan for her, each time she picked a producer who was not in the spotlight, they created a kind of new sound, the album was a success and she was a trendsetter (ROL, Music, COADF). On the opposite, everytime she picked someone who was already well known in the charts (Timbaland, Solveig (he was already huge in Europe) it doens't work, intead of creating a new sound they continue the sound of the famous producer, she kinda follow the trend instead of creating one and the album is not very well recieved (HC, MDNA). Same for working again with some previous producer (Mirwais for AL, Orbit for MDNA) it doesn't work either. Madonna gets the very best, sucks the maximum of creativity of each producer for one album only, she needs fresh blood for each new project to be on top of her creativity.

Really there is one and only solution for M ; underground producer + create a new sound together = huge success + trend setters.

People have been used, want & expect Madonna to be innovative and give the world the new sound of the next 4 years everytime she releases an album. It's very flattering.

I agree.
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Well, no matter who she choses to work with for her next album, one thing for sure, she should pick a non'commercial producer, someone not very famous yet, like when she worked with Orbit for ROL, Mirwais for Music & Price for COADF. It's obviously the best plan for her, each time she picked a producer who was not in the spotlight, they created a kind of new sound, the album was a success and she was a trendsetter (ROL, Music, COADF). On the opposite, everytime she picked someone who was already well known in the charts (Timbaland, Solveig (he was already huge in Europe) it doens't work, intead of creating a new sound they continue the sound of the famous producer, she kinda follow the trend instead of creating one and the album is not very well recieved (HC, MDNA). Same for working again with some previous producer (Mirwais for AL, Orbit for MDNA) it doesn't work either. Madonna gets the very best, sucks the maximum of creativity of each producer for one album only, she needs fresh blood for each new project to be on top of her creativity.

Really there is one and only solution for M ; underground producer + create a new sound together = huge success + trend setters.

People have been used, want & expect Madonna to be innovative and give the world the new sound of the next 4 years everytime she releases an album. It's very flattering.

That's why i think she should work with the Demolition Crew next.

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Guest bluejean

You know what's funny, I honestly think the reason she worked with unknowns like Orbit and Mirwais is because the cool famous people she wanted to work with rejected her because she is too "commercial." There are a list of them that considered themselves too cool to work with Madonna.

It certainly worked out well, imagine had she never found Mirwais and done Music. It's one of the best songs she's ever done IMO.

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Madonna gets the very best, sucks the maximum of creativity of each producer for one album only, she needs fresh blood for each new project to be on top of her creativity.

"Her" creativity? Wouldn't this not just lead to the old accusations that her sound is dictated by whatever's hot and the latest cool producers? You make her sound like a vampire! :lol: You said it - fresh blood. And that's a criticism she's always got, including from one of those cool acts how turned her down, the Aphex Twin who said she just used cool producers to stay sounding young and fresh.

Things are obviously different now, she can't do the same stuff she did before. I think she has one dance/pop album a la MDNA left in her before she starts to look ridiculous and grotesque. I agree she should work with Demolition Crew. I like when there's a bit of continuity with her and old producers/writers like Pat Leonard and Orbit turn up again in a recurring role.

Much as I like the new stuff and it's exciting, it shouldn't be for every new album. Otherwise what is she other than a producer's puppet? As much as she's in control and the album sounds like a Madonna record, it isn't always the case - Hard Candy was the least Madonna album ever, she basically had a featuring role on her own album.

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You know what's funny, I honestly think the reason she worked with unknowns like Orbit and Mirwais is because the cool famous people she wanted to work with rejected her because she is too "commercial." There are a list of them that considered themselves too cool to work with Madonna.

It certainly worked out well, imagine had she never found Mirwais and done Music. It's one of the best songs she's ever done IMO.

It sucks when you frame it that way. She just wanted guaranteed hits is damaging to the narrative and mythology built around her for pushing for new sounds and creating trends. It's all accidental which is a horrible thing to consider.
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"Her" creativity? Wouldn't this not just lead to the old accusations that her sound is dictated by whatever's hot and the latest cool producers? You make her sound like a vampire! :lol: You said it - fresh blood. And that's a criticism she's always got, including from one of those cool acts how turned her down, the Aphex Twin who said she just used cool producers to stay sounding young and fresh.

Things are obviously different now, she can't do the same stuff she did before. I think she has one dance/pop album a la MDNA left in her before she starts to look ridiculous and grotesque. I agree she should work with Demolition Crew. I like when there's a bit of continuity with her and old producers/writers like Pat Leonard and Orbit turn up again in a recurring role.

Much as I like the new stuff and it's exciting, it shouldn't be for every new album. Otherwise what is she other than a producer's puppet? As much as she's in control and the album sounds like a Madonna record, it isn't always the case - Hard Candy was the least Madonna album ever, she basically had a featuring role on her own album.

Madonna is a vampire.
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Well the Orbit and Mirwais episodes are likely accidental and that doesn't downgrade her music input to me. If you read the archives someone made here about those albuns you see that she came through Orbit and Mirwais practically by accident while she was already experimenting with conventional songwritters and musicians.

She was also in a similar situation when Stuart Price came up and now with the Demolition Crew, but this time she didn't take the risk that far.

From time to time this people suddenly appears in her life and she is very lucky with that.

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Wasn't Price another example of someone in her team (tour director for DWT) being upgraded? Exact same way as Pat Leonard actually.

I like when it happens organically like that, when it's forced as on Hard Candy is when you get trouble - more so for the Timbo stuff, she battled with Pharrell but that was acknowledged to be his best work in years and she got the best out of him.

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Wasn't Price another example of someone in her team (tour director for DWT) being upgraded? Exact same way as Pat Leonard actually.

I like when it happens organically like that, when it's forced as on Hard Candy is when you get trouble - more so for the Timbo stuff, she battled with Pharrell but that was acknowledged to be his best work in years and she got the best out of him.

Yes. Price was in her team for the DWT and got upgrated, that's why i said she was in a "similar" situation. He was basically someone unknow that happened to be in the right place at the right time and she was really lucky with that "accident". It was indeed organical, unlike in HC which she was actually shopping for songs.

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Wasn't Price another example of someone in her team (tour director for DWT) being upgraded? Exact same way as Pat Leonard actually.

I like when it happens organically like that, when it's forced as on Hard Candy is when you get trouble - more so for the Timbo stuff, she battled with Pharrell but that was acknowledged to be his best work in years and she got the best out of him.

Madonna has a long habit of testing people out a little before she uses them FULL FLEDGED on an album. Look:

Pat Leonard (musical director of the Virgin Tour) ---> co-wrote and co-produced True Blue next.

Shep Pettibone (remixed almost all her stuff in the late 80's) ----> co-wrote and co-produced Erotica.

André Betts (remixed "Justify My Love") ----> co-wrote and co-produced Erotica.

William Orbit (remixed JML, Erotica and IR) ----> co-wrote and co-produced Ray of Light.

Benny Benassi (remixed "Celebration" and opened for her S&S tour once or twice) ----> two tracks for MDNA

Based on remixes for MDNA, I wonder if Avicii or Offer Nissim will work on the next album? That could be a stretch though since lots of her remixers never worked on album with her.

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