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William Orbit's Thoughts on MDNA

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Well, apparently William regrets even posting what he did that started this topic. He apologized last night on FACEBOOK for even bringing it up. That all said, I feel that William was just expressing his frustration since his last huge effort with Madonna went swimmingly well, and now that he was back (somewhat) in the driver seat again with this one, it didn't pan out as successful as I'm sure he was hoping.

Also, Carta (earlier in this thread) has basically expressed what some of us have been saying all along regarding Madonna doing promotion. It wasn't really until RAY OF LIGHT that she started doing more promotional interviews. Keep in mind, she was three albums in her career before she appeared on any popular late night show (which was Johnny Carson at the time) and SNL. The rest was all MTV and relying on radio and the music buyers. Even back then, she didn't tour conventionally as most artists would release an album and immediately go out on the road to support it. Madonna never really did that until HARD CANDY. Yes, the times were different, but I'm not sure where people get this idea that Madonna was this promotional whore where she'd go on countless interviews and do TV. In fact, I still believe AMERICAN LIFE is probably the only album she did more TV and Radio interviews as well as some promotional gigs before touring, but that didn't help the album anymore. She again kinda repeated that formula for HARD CANDY and even hit the radio circuit even harder... more than she ever did in her whole career, and yet that album is one of her worst selling albums. Of course, some fans will say... "but yes, those were her worst albums". Hmmm? I guess that's subjective, but with all the bitching and moaning lately from some that Madonna is not producing a lot of artistic music, when she did stray away from the usual pop sound (AMERICAN LIFE)... it seems the fan base rejected it.

All this talk that she's spending too much time on other projects rather her music is bullocks!!! Ummm... what do you think she's been doing since the beginning of this year... and even before that? First it was rehearsing effortlessly for the SUPERBOWL. And ever since February, she's been working on her TOUR which is HER MUSIC. So it seems to me the time she took out to do a couple of cloth line appearances and the perfume debut, is far less time spent than all the time she's been focusing on her MUSIC tour. And if you wish to throw in WE... then by all means go ahead, but remember that film was originally intended to be released last year, but it was WEINSTIEN (sp?) who decided to move the opening date to coincide with the Super Bowl exposure. And of course, she took some time out to do some interviews for that film. It's a fairly new venture for her. Whether you like it or not, I think we're going to see more ventures like this because in the end... the Madonna I fell in love with, wasn't just a music Icon... it was the entertainer I appreciated. She's always had side projects that somehow coincided with ehr music releases. And even though, most of her films flopped, I still loved that she was on the big screen. Though, now she wants to create the story rather play it out. Seems more suitable for her, ever more than ever since she is getting older and she's becoming less appealing to the newer music generations. Directing, writing...that's far more artistic and creative than just showing up to play a part.

The bottom line, even after thirty years... even after all the side projects, she's still one of most prolific and popular entertainers out there in the music industry. Sure, MDNA didn't sell RAY OF LIGHT numbers. But looking at the music climate today, she's still keeping up since her album is still among the top 5 selling albums of the year. That may change as the year progresses, but if you look... most people are struggling to sell even a million copies of their albums anymore. So yeah, she could do IDOL or a few of the popular TV shows to sell a few more albums, but the fact is... it's all about touring anymore. Kinda full circle since that is how it use to be among majority of artists.... release an album and them go on tour, where the artists makes profit off of tickets and merchandise. Meanwhile, they can spend MONTHS on the road performing their MUSIC!!!!!! But yeah, she's hardly focused on her music anymore. :blink:

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Well, apparently William regrets even posting what he did that started this topic. He apologized last night on FACEBOOK for even bringing it up. That all said, I feel that William was just expressing his frustration since his last huge effort with Madonna went swimmingly well, and now that he was back (somewhat) in the driver seat again with this one, it didn't pan out as successful as I'm sure he was hoping.

Also, Carta (earlier in this thread) has basically expressed what some of us have been saying all along regarding Madonna doing promotion. It wasn't really until RAY OF LIGHT that she started doing more promotional interviews. Keep in mind, she was three albums in her career before she appeared on any popular late night show (which was Johnny Carson at the time) and SNL. The rest was all MTV and relying on radio and the music buyers. Even back then, she didn't tour conventionally as most artists would release an album and immediately go out on the road to support it. Madonna never really did that until HARD CANDY. Yes, the times were different, but I'm not sure where people get this idea that Madonna was this promotional whore where she'd go on countless interviews and do TV. In fact, I still believe AMERICAN LIFE is probably the only album she did more TV and Radio interviews as well as some promotional gigs before touring, but that didn't help the album anymore. She again kinda repeated that formula for HARD CANDY and even hit the radio circuit even harder... more than she ever did in her whole career, and yet that album is one of her worst selling albums. Of course, some fans will say... "but yes, those were her worst albums". Hmmm? I guess that's subjective, but with all the bitching and moaning lately from some that Madonna is not producing a lot of artistic music, when she did stray away from the usual pop sound (AMERICAN LIFE)... it seems the fan base rejected it.

All this talk that she's spending too much time on other projects rather her music is bullocks!!! Ummm... what do you think she's been doing since the beginning of this year... and even before that? First it was rehearsing effortlessly for the SUPERBOWL. And ever since February, she's been working on her TOUR which is HER MUSIC. So it seems to me the time she took out to do a couple of cloth line appearances and the perfume debut, is far less time spent than all the time she's been focusing on her MUSIC tour. And if you wish to throw in WE... then by all means go ahead, but remember that film was originally intended to be released last year, but it was WEINSTIEN (sp?) who decided to move the opening date to coincide with the Super Bowl exposure. And of course, she took some time out to do some interviews for that film. It's a fairly new venture for her. Whether you like it or not, I think we're going to see more ventures like this because in the end... the Madonna I fell in love with, wasn't just a music Icon... it was the entertainer I appreciated. She's always had side projects that somehow coincided with ehr music releases. And even though, most of her films flopped, I still loved that she was on the big screen. Though, now she wants to create the story rather play it out. Seems more suitable for her, ever more than ever since she is getting older and she's becoming less appealing to the newer music generations. Directing, writing...that's far more artistic and creative than just showing up to play a part.

The bottom line, even after thirty years... even after all the side projects, she's still one of most prolific and popular entertainers out there in the music industry. Sure, MDNA didn't sell RAY OF LIGHT numbers. But looking at the music climate today, she's still keeping up since her album is still among the top 5 selling albums of the year. That may change as the year progresses, but if you look... most people are struggling to sell even a million copies of their albums anymore. So yeah, she could do IDOL or a few of the popular TV shows to sell a few more albums, but the fact is... it's all about touring anymore. Kinda full circle since that is how it use to be among majority of artists.... release an album and them go on tour, where the artists makes profit off of tickets and merchandise. Meanwhile, they can spend MONTHS on the road performing their MUSIC!!!!!! But yeah, she's hardly focused on her music anymore. :blink:

Could u elaborate on that?

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Promo tours aside, Madonna has really only heavily promoted COADF and ROL (in terms of multiple TV performances, interviews etc.). She did absolutely nothing whatsoever for True Blue, LAP, IB and Erotica. Of course, times were different then, but still, it's not like she was everywhere for a decade and then suddenly she refused to promote her work. It all depends on how long she waits between releasing the album and going on tour these days. GMAYL was chosen because of the Superbowl - even Martin Solveig was surprised that it was chosen as the first single. Madonna put a lot of effort into the video - it was fun, looks fantastic and if the single had taken off worldwide to the extent that it did in places like Italy (where it was played to death and only prevented from reaching #1 by a novelty single), people would probably view it more kindly.

William overstepped the mark by commenting publicly on his dissatisfaction with the way MDNA has been handled. He was extremely positive during the recording process, highly supportive when the album was released and it's only now that his work isn't getting the exposure that he expected that he's voicing his concerns. Perhaps he was counting on more royalties from this project to fund future projects that he has planned? In any case, he has basically apologised for what he said (he hasn't retracted his statements, but he clearly regrets sharing his feelings with the world - he knows Madonna probably won't be calling him for her next project - he still obviously respects her enormously as an artist, but he's spoken out of turn this time and he knows it).

She certainly did a lot of promotion for Erotica in Europe. She came to the UK and Germany for interviews but the backlash to Sex in the US which launched just before meant she kept a low profile as it was so bad. American Life she did a lot of mini concerts, Music she did Brixton Academy and some European TV. Hard Candy she did the Radio 1 weekend in the UK. MDNA really was a different strategy which I can understand they thought would work but didn't. With social media you need to do more not less publicity as there are so many more outlets.

As for WO, I was surprised he voiced his comments so early after the release. In another year's time, fair enough. I've no idea whether M will drop him like Junior Vasquez or appreciate the criticism. I do think they've made some bad choices in terms of some of the songs and the production styles seem inconsistent but it's still a great album.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the tour and how that affects things.

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Could u elaborate on that?

Nope, I think I made myself perfectly clear, so please ignore me since it's obvious you have an issue with anyone having anything significant to say past a sentence or two... thank you very much...

9d8006f98e371c04c0838dab1d5463ea-721355128.gif

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Nope, I think I made myself perfectly clear, so please ignore me since it's obvious you have an issue with anyone having anything significant to say past a sentence or two... thank you very much...

An issue!? Why is everything an issue with u? I was just teasing..

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An issue!? Why is everything an issue with u? I was just teasing..

Oh the fuck you're not. Just like several other people on here (who quoted your "teasing" comments to me in this very thread), every time I take more than a sentence or two to express my opinion, rather than you (or others) actually replying to what I said you have to pop off and make some snide remark to the length of it. It's getting fuckin' old. I've done SHIT to you, yet you among a few others predictably keep hammering me when I make lengthy posts... just like those do of Kurt and even Holidayguy back in the day. So don't please give me that shit your teasing because you never reply to my topics with something to say other to "TEASE" me. So either quit the fuckin' bullshit or just ignore me. I'm here to talk about Madonna, not fight with you. You can assume I'm making an "issue" of it, but not ONCE have I ever given you a hard time or given you the idea that we're on terms of "teasing" one another.

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oh brother...the album is a HUGE bomb in the US and Orbit was just expressing what was on his mind...Get Over It! Even the two singles were huge bombs...it happens. Move On. It's funny how some of you idiots go from calling Orbit a genius then to calling him stupid.

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Oh the fuck you're not. Just like several other people on here (who quoted your "teasing" comments to me in this very thread), every time I take more than a sentence or two to express my opinion, rather than you (or others) actually replying to what I said you have to pop off and make some snide remark to the length of it. It's getting fuckin' old. I've done SHIT to you, yet you among a few others predictably keep hammering me when I make lengthy posts... just like those do of Kurt and even Holidayguy back in the day. So don't please give me that shit your teasing because you never reply to my topics with something to say other to "TEASE" me. So either quit the fuckin' bullshit or just ignore me. I'm here to talk about Madonna, not fight with you. You can assume I'm making an "issue" of it, but not ONCE have I ever given you a hard time or given you the idea that we're on terms of "teasing" one another.

This is the absolute FIRST time I've actually done that. We've had a dispute in the past, although it was a dispute from ur point of view only. I don't harbour ANY

negative feelings towards u & u should really stop acting like I do.

Sidenote: Holidaygay is one of my boyfriends from the Dotmusic days :) I only tease him 4 being hung like a giraffe.

Now, do u wanna hug me and make up?

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Is it true that most albums don't even sell a million these days? Wow. Well then, yes, MDNA is NOT a flop.

I think it's another issue other than lack of promo that bother ppl. It's about not having anything physical to buy for so long. This whole era I've only spent 9 bucks — for the CD. I'm not looking to buy GGW remixes at the end of May. I already have them! Back in March I was dying to spend money on M, but there was nothing to buy! At least this is where Warner's was better.

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Is it true that most albums don't even sell a million these days? Wow. Well then, yes, MDNA is NOT a flop.

I think it's another issue other than lack of promo that bother ppl. It's about not having anything physical to buy for so long. This whole era I've only spent 9 bucks — for the CD. I'm not looking to buy GGW remixes at the end of May. I already have them! Back in March I was dying to spend money on M, but there was nothing to buy! At least this is where Warner's was better.

U could buy the vinyl? :p

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U could buy the vinyl? :p

I don't spin vinyl anymore, and even just for collector's sake, the remixes aren't that good. Back in March though, I would've bought them bc chances are I wouldn't have heard them all. Months later I'm looking at 'Gang Bang' remixes, not GGW

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I don't spin vinyl anymore, and even just for collector's sake, the remixes aren't that good. Back in March though, I would've bought them bc chances are I wouldn't have heard them all. Months later I'm looking at 'Gang Bang' remixes, not GGW

I meant the album.

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I meant the album.

I don't spin vinyl anymore. I already own the CD.

Of course MDNA on vinyl w/ that lush cover would be gorgeous to have, right next to my pink vinyl 'Bedtime Stories'.. hmmm.

:confessions:

Wait! Stop tempting me!! :lmao:

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Is it true that most albums don't even sell a million these days? Wow. Well then, yes, MDNA is NOT a flop.

I think it's another issue other than lack of promo that bother ppl. It's about not having anything physical to buy for so long. This whole era I've only spent 9 bucks — for the CD. I'm not looking to buy GGW remixes at the end of May. I already have them! Back in March I was dying to spend money on M, but there was nothing to buy! At least this is where Warner's was better.

In general, it's always been the case that many artists don't break even and don't get big album sales. The success of the few bigs acts carried a lot of less succesful acts. I bet if we saw the album sales of some of the biggest hyped acts over the last twenty years, we'd be surprised how low some of them were.

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I don't spin vinyl anymore. I already own the CD.

Of course MDNA on vinyl w/ that lush cover would be gorgeous to have, right next to my pink vinyl 'Bedtime Stories'.. hmmm.

:confessions:

Wait! Stop tempting me!! :lmao:

PINK Bedtime Stories??? :inlove:

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2gsr9cm.gif

:lmao:

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This is the absolute FIRST time I've actually done that. We've had a dispute in the past, although it was a dispute from ur point of view only. I don't harbour ANY

negative feelings towards u & u should really stop acting like I do.

Sidenote: Holidaygay is one of my boyfriends from the Dotmusic days :) I only tease him 4 being hung like a giraffe.

Now, do u wanna hug me and make up?

No, it's not the first time. And you've said some other crappy stuff to me in the past as well. Also, I don't "act" like you harbor any negative feeling towards me. To do that, would mean I have called you out about it many times before. In fact, I've never called attention to you about your behavior towards me until above. As mentioned, you're not the only one who has done this. Yours and few other reactions for the most part are due to general animosity that has nothing to do with what I've personally said to you. If we've had a disagreement about some random issue, I have long forgotten it. But I have seen you make rude comments to me from time to time. That all said, I'm not here to fight. If you're serious about wanting to get along... that's great. ;) But enough with the shitty attitude towards me.

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Is it true that most albums don't even sell a million these days? Wow. Well then, yes, MDNA is NOT a flop.

I think it's another issue other than lack of promo that bother ppl. It's about not having anything physical to buy for so long. This whole era I've only spent 9 bucks — for the CD. I'm not looking to buy GGW remixes at the end of May. I already have them! Back in March I was dying to spend money on M, but there was nothing to buy! At least this is where Warner's was better.

Yes, it's true. A lot of artists are lucky to break even... and in many cases, that's when they rely on a tour to generate revenue. What people have to remember, artists (such as Madonna) are making a living with their music career. When certain aspects of that career starts generating less money, they find other ways to make money. It's easy to say... "oh, but she doesn't need anymore money". Well, from our perspective, that seems easy to think, but to continue to live their lifestyle and pay those very people who help her put on her shows, then yeah, she does need to keep making the money. A tour just doesn't magically happen without money. It costs a lot of money. And we've learned to expect something extravagant from her as well.... so that really means a lot of money is poured into the tour.

I do understand the disappointment of the lack of physical single releases. I does puzzle me why they wait so long to actually release a physical release. Granted, physical copies don't sell as well anymore, but even when Madonna was when Warners, they would wait forever to release the single and/or mixes.

There is really no reason for a song that was released back in March, that it took to May for a physical copy to show up. And even then, it's limited. I bought the GGW physical mixes just the other day which is due for release at the end of this month, but that's an IMPORT. From where? I don't know because it seems the UK version is an import as well. Hmmm?

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PINK Bedtime Stories??? :inlove:

Oh yeah, 'Bedtime Stories' was released on pink vinyl. You didn't know? It's gorgeous. It used to be worth a lot of money but easier access to collectors selling online has probably made its price decline.

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I think William, beating around the bush with too many words, was just trying to say that he saw Madonna was busy and all over the place to begin with. Maybe he thinks it should have been his stuff for the whole album, I doubt they cast the best stuff aside like he's implying.

Well, right, that's something to remember right there. Obviously the reports that William was in a 'coordinator' role (or executive producer, whatever you want to call it) for the WHOLE album were exaggerated. Madonna's always in that role. And she worked with LOTS of other collaborators this time, not just Solveig, but Bennassi, and Indiigo, and the Demolition Crew on its own (without William).

I love William, but if he feels he had not enough time with Madonna -- which may be true, she's very busy -- it's because she didn't do the WHOLE album with only him, as she did (mostly) for Ray of Light. So her time dedicated to recording was divided amongst many other individuals, too.

I love MDNA, but some songs in it are simply bad. And it's a pity, because some songs in it are the best one Madonna has released in years and years and years. Gang Bang, Love Spet, Falling Free, I'm a Sinner... they are so good. But then we have Superstar, GMAYL, GGW... that have nothing to do sonically or lyrically with the rest of the album. It's as if she had recorded ROL and we had as first single 'Don't Stop'.

Eh. See, the thing is everybody says this -- that they like some tracks and hate others -- but no one seems to agree on which songs. (Even a song like B'DAY SONG, which some claim is universally reviled, has its defenders, so...) And to say GMAYL and GGW don't have a place on this album because they don't sonically or lyrically match is a little limiting. Dear Jessie doesn't sound like anything else on the LAP album; Cherish is the only cloyingly romantic song on the same album. FALLING FREE sounds like nothing else on MDNA, but I'd miss it very much without such a beautiful closer. And SUPERSTAR is a distant cousin to Cherish in its unabashed romance.

I know some disagree about whether MDNA coheres as an album, which is the concern I hear you voicing, karby. But I think it succeeds more than some are willing to give it credit... After all, Superstar sounds like it could be a Solveig production, but it isn't. I F*cked Up sounds like it could be a William Orbit production, but it isn't. Some Girls doesn't sound as much like William Orbit except for the middle break ("Put your arms around my neck, it's time to deal so cut the deck..."). I'm Addicted sounds like the counterpart to Impressive Instant, Future Lovers, Nobody Knows Me, and Skin, but yet it's clearly connected to THIS album with the MDMA/MDNA reference.

More than two producers on any album has always been a headache for Madonna in the past; it's surprising how many cooks she allowed in the kitchen on this one. But I think it's remarkably fine as a collection of songs. I'm not saying I don't skip any on certain listens. But I can listen to it from beginning to end.

Interesting to read WO thoughts. For the next album Madonna needs to stop being a BRAND, at least while she is making the album.

I love most of MDNA but GMAYL, Superstar and Birthday song with their dreadful lyrics are just utter shite. GMAYL should NEVER have been the lead single.

She needs to devote her full attention to making the next album, maybe hire a decent songwriter and not be distracted by movies, perfumes, gyms and clothing ranges so we have a proper era.

See above for comments about GMAYL and Superstar. And B'day Song isn't even on the proper album. When people don't like two or three songs out of 16 or 17, I don't see the point in complaining. In the iTunes/iPod age, it's easier than ever to customize your own playlist. [Your single selection criticism has more validity, though, as it does represent the album to the casual listening audience.]

The 'distractions' you mention, though, have always been there for her for at least 25 years now -- film projects, particularly. And we've had a LONG gap between albums this time -- we know she writes/journals constantly. It's not like she only thinks about music or captures musical ideas/concepts when she's physically in a recording studio for six hours. Let's be real.

Well that's completely different from saying the album is phoned in. Madonna has not done that once in her career. Considering Hard Candy was met with the same enthusiasm and lackluster promotion, it just seems to me like she's done with the promo circuit - or is simply managed that way . The only difference was that last time, she had a big hit so people seemed to make less of a big deal of it. But she did not promote that album either, other than the promo concerts and a one-off appearance on BET. In other words - the same thing happened this time. A gargantuan performance on the Super Bowl and one interview.

Either way it's not a reflection on her music. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can say this is a lazy or phoned in album. I remember people saying the same thing about the last album, the album before that, the album before that, going back to American Life. It's even stupider to say such when William Orbit didn't even SAY she phoned it in (read it again, he says the opposite), and when Solveig and Benassi talked about the process of recording with Madonna and said what we've always heard - that she spends a long time making sure each song she writes comes out perfectly and that she pays attention to every detail and is an impressive producer, blabbity blah. Of course they wouldn't say anything bad, but William Orbit clearly had the chance to say something bad about her working process, and he didn't.

Let's not make stuff up now.

Truth. I applaud you. :clap: (And, I also adore you, but you know that... :inlove::shy: )

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Yeah, that was my thought as well when reading it. It's a great album nevertheless. But did I expect Madonna was going to come back with a commercially successful album? Certainly not! Her commitments lie with LIVE NATION... touring. And it's not like she's been lying around doing nothing. She's been working her ass off. There is a lot of vision and creativity going into the tour. It seems to me Madonna is looking to provide a live experience for her FANS. It's very much what U2 is doing and has been doing. It's been working very well for them. A tour of 22 to 25 songs is much more exciting to me than any TV interview or one off promotional performance.

This.

She is about to give the world the most mind blowing show on a gold platter. Working her ass off 24hrs a day for what is about to be the show to end all shows. There is no time for one off performances for TV this era, sorry but the tour IS the promo. Every detail and every effort put into it will be well worth the wait. The tour will start in less than 2 weeks so this negativity will be all but a faint memory. I expect nothing but a combo of DWT RT CT :dramatic: with all the amount of creative juices she has poured into this show for the past three months.

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This.

She is about to give the world the most mind blowing show on a gold platter. Working her ass off 24hrs a day for what is about to be the show to end all shows. There is no time for one off performances for TV this era, sorry but the tour IS the promo. Every detail and every effort put into it will be well worth the wait. The tour will start in less than 2 weeks so this negativity will be all but a faint memory. I expect nothing but a combo of DWT RT CT :dramatic: with all the amount of creative juices she has poured into this show for the past three months.

WORD! :dramatic:

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Oh yeah, 'Bedtime Stories' was released on pink vinyl. You didn't know? It's gorgeous. It used to be worth a lot of money but easier access to collectors selling online has probably made its price decline.

It was a DJ only promo for the US not officially released. I think 5000 copies in total and sells for at least £100 now on ebay. Very nice item.

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Could u elaborate on that?

:lmao:

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By the way, here is the stuff Madonna Express Yourself originally posted on FB that William Orbit was responding to, if you all want some context to his rant:

'Give Me All Your Luvin' the single peaked at number 39 The album MDNA, despite reaching number 1 in the UK album chart on it's first week, has now disappeared out of the UK top 40 within 6 weeks!

factually incorrect - GMAYL #37 and MDNA still top 40 this week on it's 8th week :thumbsup:

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