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William Orbit's Thoughts on MDNA


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Good thread topic. Madonna shouldn't be mad at Orbit because, after all, she's all for speaking her mind which I love her for (Reductive comment, for example). That took balls. There's too many yes men & women who never wanna rock the boat. I respect Orbit for speaking his mind. I don't really understand the "AND LATER" paragraph though: ebbs, gusts, Hilary Clinton. What?

As for Guy O'Seary, he didn't devalue Madonna, Lola did. Orbit even said it in the tweet about teenage fashion contests, etc. This is all the "Lola Factor." I'm not blaming the girl personally, she's just a teen. I blame Madonna, quite frankly. A mid-life crisis/cougar Madonna is fine for me visually but the teen musical influence is crap.. because teens listen to crap!

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Opposed to some songs and the promo on MDNA, that "god damn film" at least is a beautiful project, both visually AND especially musically.

I doubt W.E is to blame at all. If anything, it may have inspired her to work harder and not be content with generic radio friendly .. shit.

W.E. is absolutely to blame.. along w/ The Lola Factor. Also gotta disagree that it inspired her to work harder. No, it left her exhausted! That's why fan gripes about no promo for MDNA always irked me. Can't ppl see there's just not enough hours in the day? That damn film, yes DAMN film, while taking ques from what Lola thinks is hot at the moment was a lethal combo for MDNA

"generic radio friendly .. shit"

..Oh you mean like the 3rd single, TUTR

Keep in mind, folks, I LIKED HARD CANDY

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MDNA is a much more mature and accomplished album than Hard Candy. If there was ever a midlife crisis album, Hard Candy was it. So let's not blame Madonna's effing children for anything. If you didn't like the album, say so. Don't try to pin it on her DAUGHTER :rotfl:

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MDNA is a much more mature and accomplished album than Hard Candy. If there was ever a midlife crisis album, Hard Candy was it. So let's not blame Madonna's effing children for anything. If you didn't like the album, say so. Don't try to pin it on her DAUGHTER :rotfl:

Just bc you're a "Forum God" doesn't mean you can bark at everybody. You're the only one I see here doing that. Knock it off.

And I DO like the album. It's these blasted teen fashion contests & focus on the, quite frankly, increasingly obsolete mainstream Billboard charts, ie, SINGLES CHOICES I'm referring to. I also did NOT blame her daughter — she is a teen that's not her fault. I blame Madonna for the choices she makes in her own career. Mark my words, when Lola finally gets older and her tastes get more mature and developed, that's when M will "reinvent" away from chart hitting "artists" like Timberlake and Minaj. You know what I'm talking about. Everyone (just about) sees it. This is nothing new I'm mentioning here.

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Just bc you're a "Forum God" doesn't mean you can bark at everybody. You're the only one I see here doing that. Knock it off.

And I DO like the album. It's these blasted teen fashion contests & focus on the, quite frankly, increasingly obsolete mainstream Billboard charts, ie, SINGLES CHOICES I'm referring to. I also did NOT blame her daughter — she is a teen that's not her fault. I blame Madonna for the choices she makes in her own career. Mark my words, when Lola finally gets older and her tastes get more mature and developed, that's when M will "reinvent" away from chart hitting "artists" like Timberlake and Minaj. You know what I'm talking about. Everyone (just about) sees it. This is nothing new I'm mentioning here.

I'm not barking at you or ANYONE, jeeeeeez, I just don't get this logic of her daughter having to do with anything. I really don't. Perhaps in her clothing choices. Why bring her name up then if you didn't want to insinuate that she's got something to do with it?

The single choices were abysmal this time around (and last time around, really), and I do agree that she's missing her mark on that. I like Girl Gone Wild though - I think it's a solid enough single. Perhaps not for a first single but as a second single sure. But it had no chance after Give Me All Your Luvin which is like fourth single material at best.

But all this talk about Madonna not being inspired or just recording the album in her sleep is just purely ridiculous IMO. There are some really accomplished songs on here that are completely new territory for her - Love Spent, Gang Bang, and Falling Free come to mind. Shit, she re-wired Gang Bang on the spot. Are we all of a sudden low-balling Madonna just because her album bombed? :manson:

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I'm not barking at you or ANYONE, jeeeeeez, I just don't get this logic of her daughter having to do with anything. I really don't. Perhaps in her clothing choices. Why bring her name up then if you didn't want to insinuate that she's got something to do with it?

The single choices were abysmal this time around (and last time around, really), and I do agree that she's missing her mark on that. I like Girl Gone Wild though - I think it's a solid enough single. Perhaps not for a first single but as a second single sure. But it had no chance after Give Me All Your Luvin which is like fourth single material at best.

But all this talk about Madonna not being inspired or just recording the album in her sleep is just purely ridiculous IMO. There are some really accomplished songs on here that are completely new territory for her - Love Spent, Gang Bang, and Falling Free come to mind. Shit, she re-wired Gang Bang on the spot. Are we all of a sudden low-balling Madonna just because her album bombed? :manson:

Ok well a lot gets lost in short text (main reason why Twitter sucks) so I'll try not to assume your snapping at ppl. I think it also has something to do w/ your Judge Judy avatar. I love her too but she can be a bitch :lmao:. At any rate, I appreciate your response.

Let me clarify my take on Hard Candy vs MDNA for a sec. I think the singles choices for Hard Candy were MUCH better, not necessarily the album. I am a remix person, that's how I've always listened to Madonna and the remixes for HC were high quality. The MDNA remixes stink. That's my issue w/ this era. Overall, based on pure ALBUM content, MDNA is better. So, obviously, I'm not one of those who thinks M "recorded MDNA in her sleep."

I'll also try not to mention Lola in the future (I wasn't comfortable doing it anyway). I absolutely stand by what I said but will keep it to myself.

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I mean you can mention her if you want of course, I was just wanting to clarify what you meant. If you're saying that what Lola listens to is what is influencing Madonna's musicality then I disagree, as I find MDNA to be a much more mature album than Hard Candy (she sang about her booty, called herself M-Dolla, asked people to get stupid [no Madonna, that's not something young people say], and used candy as a euphemism for her cooch on that album). But if you're saying Lola's teen sensibility is what inspired Give Me All Your Luvin' (complete with the guest artists on that song), then I could see your point.

Bottom line: MDNA is suffering the same way American Life did - it was preceded by a completely misrepresentative first single and as a result is getting a very undeservedly bad rep from that. Difference is - American Life was actually a pretty weak album in many ways (it had no commercial appeal, the lyrics were dreadful, the songwriting was kinda basic and most damning of all, it was boring), and MDNA isn't. Which is why this sucks so much. I'm telling you, had she released something else first and it smashed, even the reviews of this album would've been different, nevermind the sales of it. I've seen this happen so many times with pop albums. If it's successful, it's okay to shower it with praise, even if it's shit (see: The Fame Monster). If it bombs, people assume it was probably because it was a bad album.

Hard Candy was promoted the same exact way and it wasn't given anywhere near the bad reputation it could've very well gotten. And that's because 4 Minutes was a worldwide hit. Even negative reviews of that album were pretty cautious not to diss Madonna too hard. Not this time around.

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MDNA is a much more mature and accomplished album than Hard Candy. If there was ever a midlife crisis album, Hard Candy was it. So let's not blame Madonna's effing children for anything. If you didn't like the album, say so. Don't try to pin it on her DAUGHTER :rotfl:

Exactly. I don't think she spent that much time on perfumes and the clothing line, she just gave them her name. If anything took up her time, it was the movie W.E which Lourdes has zero to do with. Judging by her blog, Lourdes listens to indie/alternative rock such as My Chemical Romance, Lykki Li, Florence and the Machine etc, which MDNA has zero in common with. I love Lourdes, she loves her mom, but she also loves indie/alternative rock just like me. Actually Madonna would be better off listening to Lourdes since she seems to have really cool indie sort of taste.

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Judging by her blog, Lourdes listens to indie/alternative rock such as My Chemical Romance, Lykki Li, Florence and the Machine etc, which MDNA has zero in common with.

Wow, who knew.

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Have you watched TV? She has an advert for her perfume every 2min's around the clock. Posters all over the streets and big huge department stores with MADONNA perfume everywhere. She has no time to promote her album, yet has enough time to go to the opening day for her perfume and do like 5 interviews in a hotel room. Her manager is a lot of the cause for this crap.

And stop quoting everything Orbit says. It wrecked the posting space. He was happy at the time, very excited, but disguised with how everything unfolded. He is only human and is speaking up and seems like the only person who gives a sh1t about the MDNA project at this point.

Is he not aware that Madonna has been busy with tour rehearsals for the MDNA Tour? How much time has Madonna really spent on the promo for the perfume, teen fashion contests etc.?

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i never saw an ad for the perfume. She did the one very brief appearance at Macy's but I didn't see her doing a ton of interviews promoting the perfume. But all that was after she finished the album, so it didn't interfer with her recording the album. MDNA has a lot of personal stuff on it, maybe she felt uncomfortable talking about it. When Larry Flick interviewed her and asked her about I don't Give A, she seemed uncomfortable. I don't know, from the interviews she did do this era, I got a weird vibe from her, like she was depressed or something very un-Madonna, as though she didn't feel like facing the press and answering personal questions. I think the decision not to promote it, was hers not Guy's.

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If you think M isn't being influenced by teen musical tastes, eh, okay. Maybe you got a point where the meat of MDNA is concerned. Still doesn't explain Minaj though. Also, again, gotta bring up those remixes. Pure childish tripe. Too many next-gen "producers" who have ZERO skills when it comes to club music. They're mostly to please the kiddies, not adults. Trust. I've been a DJ for 20 years. GGW & GAYLUV do not pack dancefloors.

And M sang about booty, called herself M-Dolla, asked people to get stupid [no Madonna, that's not something young people say]. Yeah ain't that funny? It's qwirky. An interesting reinvention is how I view it. That era to me was done so cheesy that it borders on brilliant now. I mean, Who else but M could get away w/ that and go on to gross a half billion dolla tour? But instead of going harder and more edgy w/ it — a ballsy elder stateswoman who doesn't give a shit — she's coming off kinda desperate w/ these gyms, teen contests, perfumes and, quite frankly, boring movie. This is just my opinion. Maybe I'm not w/ her program yet, idk. This is all very subjective. That's one thing that the Internet has opened up. Come to find, a lot of Madonna fans all these years like completely different things about her than what I always have. Mature Madonna. Funny Cheeseball Madonna is all good. Macy's perfume and W.E Madonna, not so much. And we're getting too much of that lately where music, many argue, seems to be taking a bit of a back seat.

I agree w/ you that if that first single had been a smash things would be different. What a missed opportunity there, Huh? It was all for the taking too, on the heels off this Lady Haha thing and the Superbowl. But hey, we're getting a tour! I'm pumped. We used to have to wait years in between albums.

American Life was a fine era, imo

Anyway, How 'bout that William Orbit?

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If you think M isn't being influenced by teen musical tastes, eh, okay. Maybe you got a point where the meat of MDNA is concerned. Still doesn't explain Minaj though.

Oh, if you're saying that Madonna is trying her damndest to rope in the younger crowd with the guest artists then I completely agree with you. She did that on the last album too. For what it's worth, I do prefer her song with Nicki over 4 Minutes. Madonna is front and center, Nicki's rap is great, and it's just thematically more of what I like from Madonna. 4 Minutes was a very submissive Madonna, I wasn't into it, even if the song wasn't bad. But MDNA on a whole isn't an album full of Madonna trying to be Britney, which is what I was trying to say. GMAYL was a fumble. But nothing else on MDNA really is (MDNA proper, that is).

And M sang about booty, called herself M-Dolla, asked people to get stupid [no Madonna, that's not something young people say]. Yeah ain't that funny? It's qwirky. An interesting reinvention is how I view it. That era to me was done so cheesy that it borders on brilliant now. I mean, Who else but M could get away w/ that and go on to gross a half billion dolla tour?

Well I agree, I don't hate Hard Candy, but I just pointed that out because a lot of people could argue that it was a much more infantile and desperate album. But you know different strokes and all.

But instead of going harder and more edgy w/ it — a ballsy elder stateswoman who doesn't give a shit — she's coming off kinda desperate w/ these gyms, teen contests, perfumes and, quite frankly, boring movie.

She did this last time too though. She cross promoted with I Am Because We Are and dedicated a lot of promotion to it. She did the same with I'm Gonna Tell You A Secret in '05. She had a fashion line in 2006 right in the middle of Confessions with H&M. Then again in 2007. And who can forget the Children's Books era? It's just more in our face and we notice it WAY more, and we can thank the internet for that. The internet isn't the same as it was 2 years ago.

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Ok well a lot gets lost in short text (main reason why Twitter sucks) so I'll try not to assume your snapping at ppl. I think it also has something to do w/ your Judge Judy avatar. I love her too but she can be a bitch :lmao:

:rotfl:

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She did this last time too though. She cross promoted with I Am Because We Are and dedicated a lot of promotion to it. She did the same with I'm Gonna Tell You A Secret in '05. She had a fashion line in 2006 right in the middle of Confessions with H&M. Then again in 2007. And who can forget the Children's Books era? It's just more in our face and we notice it WAY more, and we can thank the internet for that. The internet isn't the same as it was 2 years ago.

Yeah yeah, and I ignored it all the last time, too. I guess it's just getting harder to ignore.. probably bc of the Internet.

Although, all those other times they never seemed to interfere w/ the actual album. There just wasn't enough time this time around.

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Although, all those other times they never seemed to interfere w/ the actual album. There just wasn't enough time this time around.

Exactly. Madonna has always been doing deals and things and whatever she pleases. This time it's pretty obvious it's not like that. It may be that Live Nation contract or her desire to be richer and richer (what for? she's incredibly rich) or maybe she's bored and loves doing different things (understandable). But if you are filming your first movie and think of releasing clothes with your daughter and some perfumes and all that... just TRY to take some time to work on what will be remembered in the future: music. Don't rush an album because you want to be in the Superbowl and then put your perfume and then go on tour.

Because let's face it: music is what is remembered, not tours or perfumes or clothes. Even Madonna's most iconic and important tour, Blond Ambition, isn't as remembered as Like a Prayer or Vogue.

After 30 years in music, Madonna knows exactly when a song is going to be a worlwide hit and when it lacks strenght. If most of us thought that GMAYL was weak, imagine Madonna. I would like to know what happened. In my opinion, the album was released without a strong first single because somebody decided not to wait.

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Promo tours aside, Madonna has really only heavily promoted COADF and ROL (in terms of multiple TV performances, interviews etc.). She did absolutely nothing whatsoever for True Blue, LAP, IB and Erotica. Of course, times were different then, but still, it's not like she was everywhere for a decade and then suddenly she refused to promote her work. It all depends on how long she waits between releasing the album and going on tour these days. GMAYL was chosen because of the Superbowl - even Martin Solveig was surprised that it was chosen as the first single. Madonna put a lot of effort into the video - it was fun, looks fantastic and if the single had taken off worldwide to the extent that it did in places like Italy (where it was played to death and only prevented from reaching #1 by a novelty single), people would probably view it more kindly.

William overstepped the mark by commenting publicly on his dissatisfaction with the way MDNA has been handled. He was extremely positive during the recording process, highly supportive when the album was released and it's only now that his work isn't getting the exposure that he expected that he's voicing his concerns. Perhaps he was counting on more royalties from this project to fund future projects that he has planned? In any case, he has basically apologised for what he said (he hasn't retracted his statements, but he clearly regrets sharing his feelings with the world - he knows Madonna probably won't be calling him for her next project - he still obviously respects her enormously as an artist, but he's spoken out of turn this time and he knows it).

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I don't think she spent that much time on perfumes and the clothing line, she just gave them her name.

go re-read articles from the perfumer and the material girls regarding her work ethic. she sampled over 200 different scents, at different times for that perfume. had them sent to her house in the hamptons....

and we've all seen articles, interviews about her process on helping with the clothes designs and the perfume.

madonna doesnt just "give" her name to anything

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Bottom line: MDNA is suffering the same way American Life did - it was preceded by a completely misrepresentative first single and as a result is getting a very undeservedly bad rep from that. Difference is - American Life was actually a pretty weak album in many ways (it had no commercial appeal, the lyrics were dreadful, the songwriting was kinda basic and most damning of all, it was boring), and MDNA isn't. Which is why this sucks so much. I'm telling you, had she released something else first and it smashed, even the reviews of this album would've been different, nevermind the sales of it. I've seen this happen so many times with pop albums. If it's successful, it's okay to shower it with praise, even if it's shit (see: The Fame Monster). If it bombs, people assume it was probably because it was a bad album.

John Travolta is a lyric on MDNA, that's dreadful. MDNA's boring. Gang Bang is her Son of a Gun. Lack of commercial appeal is a virtue when you're being serious about experimenting with the sound and having a preachy message front and center. Hard Candy is just twelve songs that don't feel shuffle-able and disposable as MDNA.

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John Travolta is a lyric on MDNA, that's dreadful. MDNA's boring. Gang Bang is her Son of a Gun. Lack of commercial appeal is a virtue when you're being serious about experimenting with the sound and having a preachy message front and center. Hard Candy is just twelve songs that don't feel shuffle-able and disposable as MDNA.

You're as ludicrous as you are laughable.

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John Travolta is a lyric on MDNA, that's dreadful. MDNA's boring. Gang Bang is her Son of a Gun. Lack of commercial appeal is a virtue when you're being serious about experimenting with the sound and having a preachy message front and center. Hard Candy is just twelve songs that don't feel shuffle-able and disposable as MDNA.

:manson:

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John Travolta is a lyric on MDNA, that's dreadful. MDNA's boring. Gang Bang is her Son of a Gun. Lack of commercial appeal is a virtue when you're being serious about experimenting with the sound and having a preachy message front and center. Hard Candy is just twelve songs that don't feel shuffle-able and disposable as MDNA.

MDNA boring?? Oh, baby...:rotfl:

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John Travolta is a lyric on MDNA, that's dreadful. MDNA's boring. Gang Bang is her Son of a Gun. Lack of commercial appeal is a virtue when you're being serious about experimenting with the sound and having a preachy message front and center. Hard Candy is just twelve songs that don't feel shuffle-able and disposable as MDNA.

:lol:

Good lord, you're no better than an insufferable hipster from Williamsburg who hasn't had a bowel movement in 13 years. Your "points" with regards to your dislike of MDNA are pretty feeble- comparisons to songs by Janet Jackson (makes no sense- what because they both have gun sounds :manson: ) and accusations of bad lyrics when you adore a rap about coffee and a "theme" revolving around how it sucks to be famous and rhyme schemes that my cat could come up with (guy/shy/fly/sky)... It's all so backwards. American Life is your favorite album - you have that prerogative. But youre gonna have to find some better reasons for your disliking of this album. It sounds like you made up your mind about it from the get go, which is what purist music snobs tend to do. It actually makes sense that your other favorite album is Erotica.

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The only way I can see MDNA being rushed are the weak lyrics of certain songs (GGW, GMAYL, Superstar), the unpolished vocals on Gang Bang (yet that may have been the style she was going for) and the phoned-in feel of GGW and GMAYL. The rest is pretty great IMO. B-day Song is complete garbage but it's a B-side THANK GOD and not on the album so it gets somewhat of a pass from me.

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The only way I can see MDNA being rushed are the weak lyrics of certain songs (GGW, GMAYL, Superstar), the unpolished vocals on Gang Bang (yet that may have been the style she was going for) and the phoned-in feel of GGW and GMAYL. The rest is pretty great IMO. B-day Song is complete garbage but it's a B-side THANK GOD and not on the album so it gets somewhat of a pass from me.

and the beat goes on... i'm a happy girl... :vogue:

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