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William Orbit's Thoughts on MDNA


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What I wrote was that Madonna's version of "Some Girls" is more or less identical to the original demo from 2010. And the possibility of Madonna having changed or added a few lines doesn't change that.

Please post the demo. You keep talking about it as though you've heard it. Post it for us please. Or are you just parroting what this Tastyboy goober has said?

And who said that "Love Spent" is about Guy Ritchie? I certainly don't hear or see any particular references to Guy. The song could be about almost any divorce.

That's some major stretching you're doing. I find it itneresting how you put stock into whatever this guy says. In all likelihood, if he does have a source at all, they're telling him minute details and he's piecing his own botched theories together based on a few basic facts.

Love Spent is clearly about Guy Ritchie as he wound up with a gargantuan divorce settlement. The references are clear and obvious. If you think Madonna was going to allow some stranger to write a song FOR HER about one of the most traumatic events of her life then you are clearly living in an alternate reality. I'm sorry. Based on Madonna's track record, it makes no fucking sense.

Priscilla Renea also was involved with the original Gang Bang, the almost Glee-friendly original demo that HAS leaked, and look how much that song changed once Madonna and her team put their hands on it. If anything, Love Spent was moreso a situation like that, rather than a simple rehashing of some demo that was floating around being shopped to different pop stars.

It sounds to me like you're more inclined to believe something less glamorous simply because it fits in with the current trend of being negative just for hte sake of looking smarter or more objective. If you let all that bullshit go out the window you'll see how little sense it makes. If Tastyboy is getting exclusive information, it sounds like he's doing quite a lot of spinning. The songwriting process is best left to be talked about by the people who were actually there, rather than some fan who thinks he's part of an inner circle when he's not.

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PS. Madonna did earn a writing credit on Ray Of Light. The only similarities between Ray of Light and Sepheryn are the first verses and a bit of the chorus. Following the first chorus of Ray Of Light, the remainder of the lyrics are Madonna's (Sepheryn's lyrics are totally different after the first minute or so) - the melodies also differ massively by the time both songs get to their respective choruses. That song has a lot of co writers - meaning it took shape through the minds of MANY writers before Madonna and Orbit came together to make the song what ultimately came to be.

So no, Sepheryn is not a COVER, just like Don't Tell Me wasn't a cover of Joe Henry's Stop. The fact that you're bringing these songs up as examples of Madonna earning writing credits she didn't deserve further supports my theory that all of you people over at MadonnaTribe ( :manson: ) are full of baloney.

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What I wrote was that Madonna's version of "Some Girls" is more or less identical to the original demo from 2010. And the possibility of Madonna having changed or added a few lines doesn't change that.

And who said that "Love Spent" is about Guy Ritchie? I certainly don't hear or see any particular references to Guy. The song could be about almost any divorce.

Even if it were about Guy Ritchie, the possibility that it was written with Madonna in mind shouldn't be ruled out.

For the record, tastyboy wrote about the writers of "Love Spent" before it had been registered in the ASCAP database.

More importantly, it could be Madonna's first time being credited for a song she didn't write (Ray of Light, Revolver...). However, I think that until recently, Madonna's songwriting inputs were much more significant than what most people think. One example of that is the American Life album: Apart from "Nothing Fails", which was based on a demo by Jem Griffiths, Madonna wrote all lyrics on that album herself.

Btw, it was rumoured already in early 2011 that Madonna songwriting contributions to her then upcoming album would be limited because she was busy with W.E.

But most demos from the MDNA sessions remain unleaked. A few have leaked, though:

- original "Girl Gone Wild" demo by Rosette (labelled as a 'cover' on YouTube)

- final version of "Bang Bang" (Priscilla Renea's original demo remains unleaked)

- one of the many demos of "Give Me All Your Luvin'"

- original version of "Turn Up the Radio" by Sunday Girl (Martin Solveig played it during some of his DJ sets in 2011)

- snippet of an alternate mix of "Masterpiece" with slightly different orchestration

Ultimately, though, none of this changes my opinions of the album as a whole or the individual songs, and I still think that MDNA is one of Madonna's best albums so far.

I've never posted my opinions as fact. I've just posted reports from someone who has a history of posting exclusive details on often unreleased songs which have turned out to be accurate when the songs were released or, in some cases, leaked.

Yeah. "let's go write a song about madonnas love life even though we have NO IDEA what she personally went through."

LOL. She wrote entire verses for ray of light. SO you bringing that up makes no sense whatsoever. Go away.

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Please post the demo. You keep talking about it as though you've heard it. Post it for us please. Or are you just parroting what this Tastyboy goober has said?

That's some major stretching you're doing. I find it itneresting how you put stock into whatever this guy says. In all likelihood, if he does have a source at all, they're telling him minute details and he's piecing his own botched theories together based on a few basic facts.

Love Spent is clearly about Guy Ritchie as he wound up with a gargantuan divorce settlement. The references are clear and obvious. If you think Madonna was going to allow some stranger to write a song FOR HER about one of the most traumatic events of her life then you are clearly living in an alternate reality. I'm sorry. Based on Madonna's track record, it makes no fucking sense.

Priscilla Renea also was involved with the original Gang Bang, the almost Glee-friendly original demo that HAS leaked, and look how much that song changed once Madonna and her team put their hands on it. If anything, Love Spent was moreso a situation like that, rather than a simple rehashing of some demo that was floating around being shopped to different pop stars.

It sounds to me like you're more inclined to believe something less glamorous simply because it fits in with the current trend of being negative just for hte sake of looking smarter or more objective. If you let all that bullshit go out the window you'll see how little sense it makes. If Tastyboy is getting exclusive information, it sounds like he's doing quite a lot of spinning. The songwriting process is best left to be talked about by the people who were actually there, rather than some fan who thinks he's part of an inner circle when he's not.

Exactly!!! POST these demos if you believe they "exist"

I call bullshit on SO many accounts.

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Please post the demo. You keep talking about it as though you've heard it. Post it for us please. Or are you just parroting what this Tastyboy goober has said?

I never said I heard the demo. But what tastyboy revealed about "Some Girls" makes perfect sense to me, seen in the light that I always thought it sounded like a Britney outtake, especially the chorus.

'Love Spent is clearly about Guy Ritchie as he wound up with a gargantuan divorce settlement.

So did many other divorced people without pre-nups.

William Orbit confirmed in the EPK that the original demo was recorded by Priscilla Renea, but that jhe and Madonna altered the melody because Madonna couldn't replicate Priscilla Renea's singing style on that particular song. Why would anyone write a song for their own album, but have another person record the demo? That doesn't make any sense to me!

But it doesn't change the fact that I consider "Love Spent" the best song off the album.

Priscilla Renea also was involved with the original Gang Bang, the almost Glee-friendly original demo that HAS leaked, and look how much that song changed once Madonna and her team put their hands on it.

Yes, "Gang Bang", the melody of which was composed by Madonna alone, is significantly different from - and in my opinion much better than - "Bang Bang". But as William Orbit himself confirmed in the EPK, "Bang Bang" was already finished and ready to be sent for mastering (i.e. inclusion on the album) when Madonna suddenly felt inspired upon hearing an instrumental track produced by Demo Castellon. I'd like to hear Priscilla Renea's original demo, but for now, it hasn't leaked.

It sounds to me like you're more inclined to believe something less glamorous simply because it fits in with the current trend of being negative just for hte sake of looking smarter or more objective.

I'm not. I'm just being realistic. If anyone told me that Madonna didn't write "I Don't Give A" - now, that's something I would find unbelieveable.

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I never said I heard the demo. But what tastyboy revealed about "Some Girls" makes perfect sense to me, seen in the light that I always thought it sounded like a Britney outtake, especially the chorus.

Devil Wouldn't Recognize You sounds like a crappy Justin Timberlake b-side melodically. Are you going to tell me that for that reason alone, Madonna had no other involvement with it other than simply laying down vocals for it? In fact- she wrote that song BEFORE Justin came into the picture. So just because a song sounds similar to someone else doesn't mean shit. Any how can a song SOUND like Britney Spears? Not only is the chorus of Some Girls completely distorted by vocal effects, but Britney doesn't even have a signature sound to begin with - if anything the song sounds like a Klahs Ahlund song, the guy who writes for Robyn.

I'm telling you. This guy you keep bringing up is clueless. He's just putting together a hypothesis based on the little that he knows. I'm not going to sit here and say that Madonna wrote most of Some Girls - but if anything, William's statement about them writing the lyrics together offers more insight than some dude saying "OH MY SOURCE TOLD ME THIS."

Msig - ultimately if this were Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Beyonce, or Christina Aguilera I would be more inclined to believe that those women let a few producers and songwriters craft a song that paralleled a personal event in their private lives. That does happen. I just don't think that happened in this case (Love Spent) Madonna is known for micromanaging her recording and writing sessions in a huge way and I simply do not believe for one second that she just recorded a song about a painful divorce as it was given to her.

Why would anyone write a song for their own album, but have another person record the demo? That doesn't make any sense to me!

First of all, have you heard this demo?

Secondly, this happens all the time, you know this. Nicole Sherminger recorded a demo of Heartbeat with Pharrell. Then Madonna came in, changed all the lyrics, and the song became hers. No one is denying the existence of Love Spent before Madonna was involved, I just don't believe that she had no hand in writing the lyrics of it. Nevermind the melody.

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PS. Madonna did earn a writing credit on Ray Of Light. The only similarities between Ray of Light and Sepheryn are the first verses and a bit of the chorus. Following the first chorus of Ray Of Light, the remainder of the lyrics are Madonna's (Sepheryn's lyrics are totally different after the first minute or so) - the melodies also differ massively by the time both songs get to their respective choruses. That song has a lot of co writers - meaning it took shape through the minds of MANY writers before Madonna and Orbit came together to make the song what ultimately came to be.

So no, Sepheryn is not a COVER, just like Don't Tell Me wasn't a cover of Joe Henry's Stop. The fact that you're bringing these songs up as examples of Madonna earning writing credits she didn't deserve further supports my theory that all of you people over at MadonnaTribe ( :manson: ) are full of baloney.

I never claimed that "Ray of Light" was a cover of "Sepheryn". What I was referring to what Christine Leach told Q Magazine in August 2002:

"My uncle, Clive Muldoon, and his partner, Dave Curtiss wrote a song in the 70s called Sepheryn, which became Ray Of Light. I’d been working with William one fateful night in 1996, in London, and he played me a backing track that fitted so well with the lyric to Sepheryn that I just started singing it. Later, I was sent a cassette in the post, of Madonna’s version of the track and I nearly fainted. She must have loved the track – even her ad libs are the same as mine."

I also never mentioned "Don't Tell Me"! And I most certainly never said it was a cover, which it isn't. Joe Henry submitted the demo of "Stop" to Madonna - she didn't change a single word of his lyrics, but composed a completely different melody with Mirwais.

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I never claimed that "Ray of Light" was a cover of "Sepheryn". What I was referring to what Christine Leach told Q Magazine in August 2002:

"My uncle, Clive Muldoon, and his partner, Dave Curtiss wrote a song in the 70s called Sepheryn, which became Ray Of Light. I’d been working with William one fateful night in 1996, in London, and he played me a backing track that fitted so well with the lyric to Sepheryn that I just started singing it. Later, I was sent a cassette in the post, of Madonna’s version of the track and I nearly fainted. She must have loved the track – even her ad libs are the same as mine."

Clive Muldoon/Dave Curtis wrote Sepheryn.

Christine Leach recorded the lyrics over Orbit's track, altered the melody and added extra vocals, which Madonna copied.

Orbit composed the track.

Madonna wrote the 2nd verse (I'll have to get someone to dig up the interview in which Orbit said she wrote the 2nd verse and other sections of the song) and added some additional lyrics.

All people are given proper credit for the song - I'm sure Madonna's share of publishing is a fair 20% or less. So again, what's the issue here?

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This thread gives a whole new meaning to "don't believe everything you read." :lol: People will gladly refute words from the horses mouth in favor of what some unrelated party says. All because he said so! SMH. Man, Hard Candy really did damage to the Madonna fan community.

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Devil Wouldn't Recognize You sounds like a crappy Justin Timberlake b-side melodically. Are you going to tell me that for that reason alone, Madonna had no other involvement with it other than simply laying down vocals for it? In fact- she wrote that song BEFORE Justin came into the picture. So just because a song sounds similar to someone else doesn't mean shit. Any how can a song SOUND like Britney Spears? Not only is the chorus of Some Girls completely distorted by vocal effects, but Britney doesn't even have a signature sound to begin with - if anything the song sounds like a Klahs Ahlund song, the guy who writes for Robyn.

Well yeah, musically, the released version of Devil is very similar to certain other Timberlake-penned ballads, especially his own "Cry Me a River", "What Goes Around... Comes Around" and Rihanna's "Rehab". Honestly, it doesn't sound to me like something Madonna could have composed. But as you mention yourself, Madonna originally wrote the song several years before that - as far as we know, already in late 2003/early 2004. But we don't know how Madonna's original demos sounds. All we know is that Mike McKnight revealed in a 2005 interview with DrownedMadonna.com that the version rehearsed for the Re-Invention Tour was a "20s style torch song". And I know that I'd love to hear how the song has developed over time - for some reason, I think the pre-Timberland version are superior to the released version.

Again, what I wrote was that "Some Girls" always sounded like a Britney outtake. More specifically, "Some Girls" reminds me very much of Britney's "Piece of Me", which happens to be co-written by Klas Åhlund and Bloodshy & Avant. But it doesn't sound like any other Åhlund songs I've heard so far.

Msig - ultimately if this were Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Beyonce, or Christina Aguilera I would be more inclined to believe that those women let a few producers and songwriters craft a song that paralleled a personal event in their private lives. That does happen. I just don't think that happened in this case (Love Spent) Madonna is known for micromanaging her recording and writing sessions in a huge way and I simply do not believe for one second that she just recorded a song about a painful divorce as it was given to her.

First of all, have you heard this demo?

No, I haven't heard the original "Love Spent" demo. And you're entitled to have your opinion. I just disagree with it, apart from the Britney/Janet parts.

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Clive Muldoon/Dave Curtis wrote Sepheryn.

Christine Leach recorded the lyrics over Orbit's track, altered the melody and added extra vocals, which Madonna copied.

Orbit composed the track.

Madonna wrote the 2nd verse (I'll have to get someone to dig up the interview in which Orbit said she wrote the 2nd verse and other sections of the song) and added some additional lyrics.

All people are given proper credit for the song - I'm sure Madonna's share of publishing is a fair 20% or less. So again, what's the issue here?

That sounds very accurate, though Madonna's share is 30%, according to what Dave Curtiss said in the same Q Magazine interview:

"I was a bit annoyed at first because Madonna wanted 30 per cent just for changing a couple of lines, but then I realised that 15 per cent of millions is a lot better than 100 per cent of nothing. I did very well out of it."

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Then if you're to agree that Devil was a song originally penned by Madonna & Joe Henry yet altered majorly during recording sessions with Timabaland/Timberlake, you can also infer that Love Spent and Some Girls were songs penned by other songwriters, changed during recording sessions with Madonna and William Orbit. We don't know the degree to which these songs were altered, but you are putting stock in a person who said that Madonna didn't write Give Me All Your Luvin' just because a demo exists without her vocals. :megamanson:

Here is what we do know:

- William Orbit claims he and Madonna worked on the lyrics together in Some Girls

- Priscilla Renea said on Twitter that she wrote Love Spent's lyrics WITH MADONNA.

And you readily reference Madonna's inspired work on Gang Bang and I'm Addicted - two much more layered/complicated songs than Give Me All Your Luvin', yet you are quick to be Tastyboy's mouthpiece who at first said that she didn't even write GMAYL at all (go to Louise Oriole's post). We have quotes from the horses mouths and we're still going back & forth. How on earth does that make sense? She was instrumental in the most musically complicated songs on the album (you & Tastyboy's words), yet she was all but incidental on a song as rudimentary as GMAYL?

Does not add up.

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It was also confirmed that they used a "demo vocalist" during production for when Madonna wasn't in the studio, so the fact that someone heard a non Madonna demo that's different from the final version means nothing. That could be from any stage in the creative process.

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It was also confirmed that they used a "demo vocalist" during production for when Madonna wasn't in the studio, so the fact that someone heard a non Madonna demo that's different from the final version means nothing. That could be from any stage in the creative process.

:thumbsup:

This info has been known to us since day 1. Don't know why anyone else couldn't retain that piece of information.

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It was also confirmed that they used a "demo vocalist" during production for when Madonna wasn't in the studio, so the fact that someone heard a non Madonna demo that's different from the final version means nothing. That could be from any stage in the creative process.

People keep ignoring this even though we knew this from the beginning & it was stated multiple times during the album-making process. From what's been said, Priscilla is one of the vocalists they used. People are hearing a demo, like the supposed non-M GMAYL one, for example, & making a lot of assumptions based on that. There are little bits & pieces of info & some people write soap operas (sometimes that go w their own pre-conceived notions) out of that.

I think Tastyboy also made the assumption that M had nothing to do with Masterpiece because he felt that when M was giving her Golden Globes thank you speech that it looked like to him that M probably met Julie for the 1st time. He didn't actually know it for sure, but he made an assumption based on a couple seconds of footage & then jumped to conclusions. Whether she did or not, I don't know, but even so, you don't have to be in the same room to write a song together. Stuff gets sent back & forth all the time & we know Orbit stated he was sending stuff back & forth to M via encrypted methods when they were working on the acoustic versions of some of the songs on MDNA, so it's not a novel concept to them.

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Soooo.......

In short, we should believe a fan that posts on a fan site knows more about the creation of the songs on MDNA than the people who actually created the songs?? Seriously!? WTF has happened to Madonna fans these past few years?? :lol: So many sound like big, spoiled babies throwing a tantrum cuz Mommy didn't give them their way.

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what has happened is that anybody can rant or tell things and people read it. We know very little about how MDNA was created but Madonna has been VERY VERY VERY fair throughout the years and has credited everybody and when she's credited herself is because she has been part of the process. Any other thought is simply boredom or a way to argue without reason.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Chris Brown is going to debut with 125-135k next week in the U.S.

A #1 album for sure, but considering Orbit said that Chris got all the "good songs", I somehow doubt Madonna cares. Brown won't even hit gold with that kind of opening.

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well, i don't know in your countries. but that Wake me Up song is being played all the time here in Spain. I don't find it a very good song, to be fair.

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So just one Orbit-related track ended up on Chris Brown's album- and it includes Benassi, Priscilla Renea and a slew of other credited writers.

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