Camille Paglia Trashes Lady Gaga and Praises Madonna

[Niitsitapi]

Oh, come off it. It's pure playground level, and you know it. Trying to over-intellectualise it by saying that the "ugliness" is yet another part of why someone doesn't like her just doesn't cut it.

It's quite rich considering a lot of the people here go to other forums and come back crying because people are saying awful things about Madonna's hands in some new tabloid picture or they get their jockstraps in a twist when someone here dares to criticise Madonna's new cheeks.

I just went back and read through the thread, the only people that I see outright calling her ugly are Nikki, theXX, and FedFed. They don't represent this entire thread and the people that have replied. Maybe you can show me where everyone is calling her ugly and a dog because honestly I don't see it. Like you brought up earlier, other pop stars are criticized all the time, but it seems like when people have a negative view on Lady Gaga people want to defend her. It's really not that serious as some of you are making it. Why does the fact that people don't like Lady Gaga bother some of you so much?

[Guest Pud Whacker]

are you kidding suedehole? i mean shes a knock out. beautiful, so sexy and her music is just wonderful. i RA RA'd all the way over here.

shyt, lets not forget that fantastic dancing!!! WOO HOO!!!

LADY GAGA!!!!

[Apples388]

I just went back and read through the thread, the only people that I see outright calling her ugly are Nikki, theXX, and FedFed. They don't represent this entire thread and the people that have replied. Maybe you can show me where everyone is calling her ugly and a dog because honestly I don't see it.

I suppose you have GetUnconscious on Ignore then. I wouldn't blame you, really.

Like you brought up earlier, other pop stars are criticized all the time, but it seems like when people have a negative view on Lady Gaga people want to defend her. It's really not that serious as some of you are making it. Why does the fact that people don't like Lady Gaga bother some of you so much?

Oh, it's not about Lady Gaga at all. If it were any other pop star that was being unfairly criticised, I would have the same issue and the same response.

And that's my point - that the criticisms, from Camille Paglia and the majority of the ones here (if you can even call them "criticisms") in this thread, are unfair. The fact that they're about Lady Gaga is irrelevant.

[Apples388]

are you kidding suedehole? i mean shes a knock out. beautiful, so sexy and her music is just wonderful. i RA RA'd all the way over here.

shyt, lets not forget that fantastic dancing!!! WOO HOO!!!

LADY GAGA!!!!

Well now you had to do that and make me laugh

*cries a little bit like the QUEEN OF LIFE in Truth or Dare before the KEITH HARING show*

Now why did I have to do that... *fixes mascara*

[Guest]

Where did i call her ugly?

I never have.

Are you hearing voices again?

I was meaning that you find ways to 'discredit' her because you can't knock her success.

shes a beauty.

gorgeous!!!!

[Guest]

I suppose you have GetUnconscious on Ignore then. I wouldn't blame you, really.

Bitch.

[Apples388]

Bitch.

You got that right

Now sit your ass down

[Lucky guy]

In all seriousness I think many Madonna fans have a deep seated self concious loathing of Gaga because her 'Madonna on fast forward' trajectory cheapens Madonna's own career. Gaga's freaky underground indie phase has been so comprehensively shown to be a pathetic sham; it calls into question Madonna's own 'came to NYC with $35 and ate out of bins' mythology. Were Madonna's jabs at Catholicism a courageous expression of artistic freedom or were they as Gaga's are -calculated and vulgar attacks on a declining institution? For everything Madonna has ever been, Gaga is the cheaper, uglier, clumsier reflection. But distorted as it is, that reflection may hold some uncomfortable truths for Madonna fans.

[Guest]

Actually, my ass is kind of in the air and that's where it's staying for now. Let me just say that yes I think Gaga has a terrible and stupid face but I still dance to her songs if I want to. However, I would dance to Hammer time if it came on. Or whatever that song was called. She makes some alright songs, but that's where it ends with me. I don't buy fake.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Well now you had to do that and make me laugh

*cries a little bit like the QUEEN OF LIFE in Truth or Dare before the KEITH HARING show*

Now why did I have to do that... *fixes mascara*

dont forget camille paglia is a commentator on pop culture and the arts. theres a lot of interesting stuff shes saying regarding a generation.

if this was a complimentary piece - nobody would be saying shyt about miss camille. they would LOVE it. because its CAMILLE PAGLIA. xo

anyway, back to that gorgeous creature of loveliness and talent - LADY GAGA!!!

RA RA!!!

[Niitsitapi]

I suppose you have GetUnconscious on Ignore then. I wouldn't blame you, really.

Oh, it's not about Lady Gaga at all. If it were any other pop star that was being unfairly criticised, I would have the same issue and the same response.

And that's my point - that the criticisms, from Camille Paglia and the majority of the ones here (if you can even call them "criticisms") in this thread, are unfair. The fact that they're about Lady Gaga is irrelevant.

No offense but I don't usually read posts by GetUnconscious. The criticism aimed at Lady Gaga are unfair but I honestly still feel like she brought a lot of it on herself. She got her foot in the door by playing by the already established rules. I don't buy that when Madonna, Britney, and Christina are in videos half naked and making out with other girls they're trying to be sexy but when Gaga does the same things in videos like "Love Game" it's all of a sudden an after thought. She presents herself as a freak now but she got her foot in the door by playing the game the same way the other girls did. Criticism of her sexuality should be expected because she came in the game using sexuality in her work.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

I just went back and read through the thread, the only people that I see outright calling her ugly are Nikki, theXX, and FedFed. They don't represent this entire thread and the people that have replied. Maybe you can show me where everyone is calling her ugly and a dog because honestly I don't see it. Like you brought up earlier, other pop stars are criticized all the time, but it seems like when people have a negative view on Lady Gaga people want to defend her. It's really not that serious as some of you are making it. Why does the fact that people don't like Lady Gaga bother some of you so much?

I think you'll find Suedy was most likely commenting on the overall view on how people see her at the forum, not just THIS thread. People have stated more than once that she shouldn't be a popstar because she's ugly, and in her thread she's called DOG by a couple people on a regular basis.

Not that people aren't allowed to have those opinions, i just don't get such vicious attacks like UGLY DOGED FACE MONSTER aimed at some random chick. You'd think people were talking about Hitler or something with the way they spit at her.

[Apples388]

I think you'll find Suedy was most likely commenting on the overall view on how people see her at the forum, not just THIS thread. People have stated more than once that she shouldn't be a popstar because she's ugly, and in her thread she's called DOG by a couple people on a regular basis.

Not that people aren't allowed to have those opinions, i just don't get such vicious attacks like UGLY DOGED FACE MONSTER aimed at some random chick. You'd think people were talking about Hitler or something with the way they spit at her.

Thank you.

This has, as you pointed out, been going on for quite a while - but I think with this thread I just sort of had enough. It's one thing to make a flippant remark but with her these days it's actually quite horrible in here.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

i just don't get such vicious attacks like UGLY DOGED FACE MONSTER aimed at some random chick. You'd think people were talking about Hitler or something with the way they spit at her.

like, youre kidding - right?

have you ever read the shyt that comes out of your mouth regarding xtina?

[Guest]

In all seriousness I think many Madonna fans have a deep seated self concious loathing of Gaga because her 'Madonna on fast forward' trajectory cheapens Madonna's own career. Gaga's freaky underground indie phase has been so comprehensively shown to be a pathetic sham; it calls into question Madonna's own 'came to NYC with $35 and ate out of bins' mythology. Were Madonna's jabs at Catholicism a courageous expression of artistic freedom or were they as Gaga's are -calculated and vulgar attacks on a declining institution? For everything Madonna has ever been, Gaga is the cheaper, uglier, clumsier reflection. But distorted as it is, that reflection may hold some uncomfortable truths for Madonna fans.

Nothing Gaga does calls what Madonna did it into question. I don't get how you arrived at this idea. That's like saying Aquas song 'Barbie Girl' calls Mozarts 'Symphony Nr. 40' into question. Like, Madonna did really rough it. Not just wearing her bra while performing at a cheap cabaret. She lived like a poor person, in a shit hole. Besides, I take Madonna: Innocence lost as the gospel...pretty much.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

I was meaning that you find ways to 'discredit' her because you can't knock her success.

Erm, i don't actually.

I've posted around 5 times in her thread in the last 2 years, and all i said was she's shit live and most of her songs suck. I don't go ON AND ON and try to DISCREDIT her like ANY of the regular Gaga haters. Nice try though, but you're talking shit.

And if i found her ugly, i certainly wouldn't call her a "A DOG FACE who's undeserving of her success", i mean how hideous.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

LADY GAGA - QUEEN OF THE BEAUTY FACE!!!! fuck the disco stick - shes SEX ON A STICK!!!!

WOO HOO!!!

ugly bytch.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

like, youre kidding - right?

have you ever read the shyt that comes out of your mouth regarding xtina?

Yes. I've said she has bow legs and she has tranny make up.

I don't say she's a FUCKING DEFORMED UGLY DOG, Puddle, which is a BIT SEVERE.

[Niitsitapi]

I think you'll find Suedy was most likely commenting on the overall view on how people see her at the forum, not just THIS thread. People have stated more than once that she shouldn't be a popstar because she's ugly, and in her thread she's called DOG by a couple people on a regular basis.

Not that people aren't allowed to have those opinions, i just don't get such vicious attacks like UGLY DOGED FACE MONSTER aimed at some random chick. You'd think people were talking about Hitler or something with the way they spit at her.

Oh ok, I get that. I don't know that much about the stuff that was said about her in the past.

The one thing that I like about Lady Gaga is she seems to be very aware of pop culture and her role in it. When she uses sexuality there's usually humor to it, almost like a parody of what we'd usually see in pop videos. She uses our preoccupation with sex and beauty to her advantage but makes fun of it all at the same time.

[Lucky guy]

Nothing Gaga does calls what Madonna did it into question. I don't get how you arrived at this idea. That's like saying Aquas song 'Barbie Girl' calls Mozarts 'Symphony Nr. 40' into question. Like, Madonna did really rough it. Not just wearing her bra while performing at a cheap cabaret. She lived like a poor person, in a shit hole. Besides, I take Madonna: Innocence lost as the gospel...pretty much.

I'm not suggesting that Madonna didn't rough it; or that she did. However I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that her genisis was not quite as organic as the popular version suggests.

[Guest]

No offense but I don't usually read posts by GetUnconscious.

What? You little bitch. Well more fool you! You're missing out!

like, youre kidding - right?

have you ever read the shyt that comes out of your mouth regarding xtina?

It's allowed for Christina. Calling her child ugly, calling her fat, calling her bow legged, calling her a failure, wishing that she fails, hoping she dies, calling her a clown...I mean I could go on forever. I guess it's allowed against Xtincta but not against Lady Gaga. I actually just loled. It really dawned on me how gays actually treat pop stars so...personally. Like they react as though somebody has dared to smite their family name or something. I love gay men. So dramatic and crazy.

[Apples388]

In all seriousness I think many Madonna fans have a deep seated self concious loathing of Gaga because her 'Madonna on fast forward' trajectory cheapens Madonna's own career. Gaga's freaky underground indie phase has been so comprehensively shown to be a pathetic sham; it calls into question Madonna's own 'came to NYC with $35 and ate out of bins' mythology. Were Madonna's jabs at Catholicism a courageous expression of artistic freedom or were they as Gaga's are -calculated and vulgar attacks on a declining institution? For everything Madonna has ever been, Gaga is the cheaper, uglier, clumsier reflection. But distorted as it is, that reflection may hold some uncomfortable truths for Madonna fans.

You raise a very, very interesting point. And I think for some of the more discerning Madonna fans, there is an element of that. But I honestly believe that 99% of the negativity that's aimed at Gaga is far more superficial than that, and has a lot more to do with some irrational form of jealousy because she happens to be very successful and, yes of course part of what she does is inspired by Madonna.

But I think most of us know that the "$35 ate out of bins" story is mythology, and have known that for years.

As for Madonna's jabs at Catholicism, or some of her other antics... well, didn't Madonna herself speak out about those years and admit that her actions were not always altruistic? Fair enough it may have been the Special K(abbalah) talking, but with Madonna I find that fascinating anyway.. that you will never really know a lot of the myth behind her and her work. It's great. It's part of what makes her Madonna.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Yes. I've said she has bow legs and she has tranny make up.

I don't say she's a FUCKING UGLY DOG, Puddle, which is a BIT SEVERE.

you have said some pretty gnarly things about that miss xtina.

and listen, i get it - youre attached to lady gaga - so youre more protective of her. but cmon...we all sling shyt at the ones we not particularly fond of. and lets face it - she does have a dog face.

people are always on about miss horse face kylie - but are we not really that disturbed because she really isnt ugly?

[Apples388]

What? You little bitch. Well more fool you! You're missing out!

It's allowed for Christina. Calling her child ugly, calling her fat, calling her bow legged, calling her a failure, wishing that she fails, hoping she dies, calling her a clown...I mean I could go on forever. I guess it's allowed against Xtincta but not against Lady Gaga. I actually just loled. It really dawned on me how gays actually treat pop stars so...personally. Like they react as though somebody has dared to smite their family name or something. I love gay men. So dramatic and crazy.

Excuse me! Did you miss the memo? Christina Aguilera is our Pop Princess of September 2010. We have a special haven for positivity in the thread there. You are all most welcome to post in it by the way. It's a bit lonely with just Genie, Isaac, ABoyLikethat (or whatever she/he/it calls himself) and myself these days.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

It's allowed for Christina. Calling her child ugly, calling her fat, calling her bow legged, calling her a failure, wishing that she fails, hoping she dies, calling her a clown...I mean I could go on forever. I guess it's allowed against Xtincta but not against Lady Gaga. I actually just loled. It really dawned on me how gays actually treat pop stars so...personally. Like they react as though somebody has dared to smite their family name or something. I love gay men. So dramatic and crazy.

i think its also tolerable because xtina is far from ugly but miss gaga is butt fug and the truth hurts her loyal fans. i think.

[Guest]

I'm not suggesting that Madonna didn't rough it; or that she did. However I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that her genisis was not quite as organic as the popular version suggests.

What evidence? Madonna got a dance scholarship, didn't commit. She joined bands, auditioned for parts, recorded songs, passed her songs to DJs and promoted herself every chance she got. Of course, becoming a star wasn't an accident...but it was definitely organic. When you look back it seems like it just fell into place, even though I'm sure it was all hard work. Her life dictated what happened in her work and the things she experienced dictated her looks. None of it was a whim. Even up to today. People realised her raw potential and gave her a recording contract, but a lot happened before it. Gaga was virtually manufactured. The stage name, the look, the material, the sound...everything. I don't get why people find that so difficult to admit.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

It's allowed for Christina. Calling her child ugly, calling her fat, calling her bow legged, calling her a failure, wishing that she fails, hoping she dies, calling her a clown...I mean I could go on forever.

Are you all high or something?

I've never said Xtina needs to DIE, and i've NEVER wished she FAILED. You're talking shit.

I don't think her son is very cute, but i didn't call the kid an UGLY CUNT.

As for bow legged, WHAT OTHER NAMES ARE THERE FOR BOW LEGGED???? bow legged is an ACTUAL NAME for peoples LEGS. She IS bow legged. I don't call her a BROKEN LEGGED PIG or something.

Is there enough air where you are? maybe go outside and get some because all that GAS being released in your room is clogging up your brain.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

you have said some pretty gnarly things about that miss xtina.

Find me one.

[Apples388]

you have said some pretty gnarly things about that miss xtina.

and listen, i get it - youre attached to lady gaga - so youre more protective of her. but cmon...we all sling shyt at the ones we not particularly fond of. and lets face it - she does have a dog face.

people are always on about miss horse face kylie - but are we not really that disturbed because she really isnt ugly?

Ya know what, I suppose we'll always have our "pet hates"...

QueenBitch and markm have Kylie to hate; you and GetUnconscious have Gaga; I have Janet (let's not forget this poor woman has been called THE BEAST on occasion - and not in reference to THE BEAST WITHIN); 12:51, GimmeSomeMo and (to a lesser extent) CUBB have Christina; some of the less important people round here have Britney etc. etc.

It's the nature of the game isn't it.

[Apples388]

As for bow legged, WHAT OTHER NAMES ARE THERE FOR BOW LEGGED???? bow legged is an ACTUAL NAME for peoples LEGS. She IS bow legged. I don't call her a BROKEN LEGGED PIG or something.

Sorry but MEGA LOL