Dickens Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 From The Sunday TImes: "Lady Gaga and the Death of Sex" Camille Paglia 12 September 2010 http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/magazine/article389697.ece The references to Madonna include the following excerpts: "Gaga has borrowed so heavily from Madonna (as in her latest video-Alejandro) that it must be asked, at what point does homage become theft? However, the main point is that the young Madonna was on fire. She was indeed the imperious Marlene Dietrich’s true heir. For Gaga, sex is mainly decor and surface; she’s like a laminated piece of ersatz rococo furniture. Alarmingly, Generation Gaga can’t tell the difference. Is it the death of sex? Perhaps the symbolic status that sex had for a century has gone kaput; that blazing trajectory is over…" "Peeping dourly through all that tat is Gaga’s limited range of facial expressions. Her videos repeatedly thrust that blank, lugubrious face at the camera and us; it’s creepy and coercive. Marlene and Madonna gave the impression, true or false, of being pansexual. Gaga, for all her writhing and posturing, is asexual. Going off to the gym in broad daylight, as Gaga recently did, dressed in a black bustier, fishnet stockings and stiletto heels isn’t sexy – it’s sexually dysfunctional." "Compare Gaga’s insipid songs, with their nursery-rhyme nonsense syllables, to the title and hypnotic refrain of the first Madonna song and video to bring her attention on MTV, Burning Up, with its elemental fire imagery and its then-shocking offer of fellatio. In place of Madonna’s valiant life force, what we find in Gaga is a disturbing trend towards mutilation and death…" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 "Unhappy people are nasty people." - Madonna (indirectly referring to Camille, in 1998) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Madonna can't stand Camille. In fact I have that entire portion of the interview Suedey mentioned memorized. Madonna: "She said I what?" (exasperated) Interviewer: That you CONCEDED to marketing." Madonna: "Hmm, that I conceded to marketing" (trying not to roll eyes) "I think she said those things because I didn't want to do an interview with her." Interviewer: "Hahaha, she can be quite nasty." Madonna: "Yes she can. But unhappy people are nasty people." BAM. So much pwnage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 But now that she is attacking Gaga her opinions matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 We all know Camille is full of shit and she's probably just being a hater, but I can't disagree with the part about Lady Gaga being totally sexless. The poor girl tries so hard to be a CRAZY FREAKY sex symbol and it never works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coked Up Baby Boy Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 But now that she is attacking Gaga her opinions matter! MadonnaNation GET READY FOR THE FOG HORNS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niitsitapi Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Regardless of who she is and what Madonna thinks of her, a lot of what was written in the article was on point. I especially loved the part about Gaga's facial expressions (or lack there of) in videos. I was trying to explain this to someone after "Alejandro" premiered but they didn't get what I was saying. This photo pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topaz Scorpio Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I don't think Gaga is trying to be sexy though in most of her videos. She continually tries to be the freak or the monster, something that people fear. I think Lovegame (in which she did come off sexy) and Poker Face were really the only intentionally sexy videos. She has done some things in some other videos that are SEXUAL, but not SEXY. To me for her to be sexy would mean she was intentionally trying to entice the viewer. That was a constant theme in Madonna's work, but seems almost secondary or an afterthought for Gaga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niitsitapi Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I think Lovegame (in which she did come off sexy) Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topaz Scorpio Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Regardless of who she is and what Madonna thinks of her, a lot of what was written in the article was on point. Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Camille is batshit crazy, but absolutely everything she said about Gaga is point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I think Lovegame (in which she did come off sexy) and Poker Face were really the only intentionally sexy videos. I always thought the shot of Gaga coming out of the pool at the start of Poker Face is striking as hell. I dont know if I would call it sexy, but its one of the moments that really made me pay closer attention to her. Cant really put my finger on it. Something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coked Up Baby Boy Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I don't think Gaga is trying to be sexy though in most of her videos. Which is what i think people DON'T REALLY GET. I guess everyone is so bogged down in the brain with Madonna gyrating her cunt or Britney bending over that they assume Gaga in a bra and panties is meant to make peoples mouths water. SORRY, NOT CORRECT. As for her never being hot, INACCURATE........she looked great in LoveGame, PokerFace, Beautiful Dirt Rich and Just Dance, so don't give me that shit, thanksallbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niitsitapi Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 As for her never being hot, INACCURATE........she looked great in LoveGame, PokerFace, Beautiful Dirt Rich and Just Dance, so don't give me that shit, thanksallbye. She honestly has never looked hot to me. She has looked decent on a few occasions but sexy is something she is not. I'm not saying that's a bad thing either. Not everyone can be sexy. I also don't buy that she's never tried to be sexy. When she first came out she was obviously just as sexual as your average pop star it's just that she never was able to pull it off. In videos like "Love Game" and "Poker Face" she attempted to be sexy and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coked Up Baby Boy Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I thought she was hot in both....NOW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 http://www.zshare.net/audio/80110060e8df9259/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coked Up Baby Boy Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini1313 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Lady who ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Camille is so spot on on Gaga & her fans, and Madonna. As to Gaga trying to be a freak or a monster, she proclaims to "liberate" her audience by being one. But I find it false when being a freak actually means hiding behind masks, the more outrageous the better, to cover for one's inadequacies. She's sucha FAKE through and through, and doesn't embody at all what she says she's aiming for. She (and her corporate handlers) just knew that being costume-y would work. And it has.. so far. Madonna ditching her feminine bombshell LAV era body (which most hetero males find sexy and appealing) to one which is muscly and almost masculine was being TRULY freakish-- and brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Camille is so spot on on Gaga & her fans, and Madonna. As to Gaga trying to be a freak or a monster, she proclaims to "liberate" her audience by being one. But I find it false when being a freak actually means hiding behind masks, the more outrageous the better, to cover for one's inadequacies. She's sucha FAKE through and through, and doesn't embody at all what she says she's aiming for. She (and her corporate handlers) just knew that being costume-y would work. And it has.. so far. Madonna ditching her feminine bombshell LAV era body (which most hetero males find sexy and appealing) to one which is muscly and almost masculine was being TRULY freakish-- and brave. I agree with all of that....and it kills me when her fans go on about how she's not trying to be sexy, which is the most ridiculous statement ever. She wants so desperately to be a sex symbol, it's not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I agree with all of that....and it kills me when her fans go on about how she's not trying to be sexy, which is the most ridiculous statement ever. She wants so desperately to be a sex symbol, it's not even funny. Yeah.. there are moments when it's clear she wants to be SEXY then reverts back to being freakish as if she's covering herself in case her being sexy fails which is the case most-- if not all-- of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agclef Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Regardless of who she is and what Madonna thinks of her, a lot of what was written in the article was on point. I especially loved the part about Gaga's facial expressions (or lack there of) in videos. I was trying to explain this to someone after "Alejandro" premiered but they didn't get what I was saying. This photo pretty much sums it up. Honestly though, you can't all have a face like Madonna's, especially in her younger years---Camille, I have to say is on point, I actually agree with a lot, if not, most of what she's saying, I GET IT, I have felt the same way from the moment GaGa came on the scene, it's missing that "something", and it just doesn't resonate with me..on ANY level, needless to say asexually...anyway, interesting quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertogerard Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I don't think Gaga is trying to be sexy though in most of her videos. She continually tries to be the freak or the monster, something that people fear. I think Lovegame (in which she did come off sexy) and Poker Face were really the only intentionally sexy videos. She has done some things in some other videos that are SEXUAL, but not SEXY. To me for her to be sexy would mean she was intentionally trying to entice the viewer. That was a constant theme in Madonna's work, but seems almost secondary or an afterthought for Gaga. That's because Lady GaGa is NOT sexy. And Ms. Monster deep down knows it. That's why she presents herself as "the freak". Regardless of what Madonna's detractors thought of her lack of talent, they all agreed she was sexy as hell. Lady GaGa is about as sexy as Marylin Manson. Camille Paglia hit this nail right on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeMo Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Um, its not being a PORNSTAR, its being a singer, being SEKSI isnt a prerequisite and if some think it is, they need to get out of Madonna's ass. Whether GaGa is presenting herself as an asexual 'freak' by artistic choice or necessity isnt the issue. It obviously WORKS for some people (not afrolito GIVE MADONNA THE OSCAR NAOU though, big SHOCKER there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Well the point is she has done her fair share of copying Madonna. Her press releases compared her to Madonna from the get go. So she has opened herself up to the comparison. And in comparison to Madonna, she is NOT sexy AT ALL. That is the point being made here. No there are no rules you need to be sexy to be a female pop singer. But this a woman constantly parading around in her underwear. She has also had sexually overt lyrics, sparks flying out of her tits and endless quotes about her vagina. There's really no dispute, the woman has tried to be sexy and failed. Every straight man I know is horrified by her. Most of them still think she's a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 We all know Camille is full of shit and she's probably just being a hater, but I can't disagree with the part about Lady Gaga being totally sexless. The poor girl tries so hard to be a CRAZY FREAKY sex symbol and it never works +1 THIS. I still don't understand how so many people can't see the unique face of one woman, compared to the weird gaze of the other. In fact, its the only reason she made up all that monster bullshit. do we really think that if gaga had looked as charismatic as a Madonna, or even a rihanna or gwen stefani, she'd have included all of that monster and freak bullshit? she kind of had to include this into the promo of her own product, and its a pretty great marketing strategy as well, lets be honest.. not many artists have used being sexy but failing at it as a way of promoting themselves. Maybe earlier on she didnt actually really look into Madonna's work and only saw what the masses saw and not what the fans see. (like Madonna's concert videos, the brilliant intro videos, etc) now that she saw those, she sees how much g borrowed from M. or maybe she has a big feeling of hate towards all female icons of the present. First M, now g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeMo Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 It shocks me that people can't see the difference between using sexual iconography and trying to be sexy. At what point has Gaga projected that whole 'OH COME ON BOYS DONT YOU WANNA FUCK ME' aura that Madonna constantly does? Just because she uses strong sexual imagery among all the OTHER strong religious/political/cultural imagery she uses doesnt mean she's Madonna or Britney Spears all of a sudden building a career on her vagina and frankly its a testament to how simple-minded some are to use the fact that she is not conventionally PRETTY or SEXY (which she isnt) as an ACCUSATION against her. Too much Madonna and porn I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Is it the death of sex? Perhaps the symbolic status that sex had for a century has gone kaput; that blazing trajectory is over…" Wtf is this bytch on? What utter rubbish. A four word sentence would have covered all that "Lady Gaga is ugly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niitsitapi Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 It shocks me that people can't see the difference between using sexual iconography and trying to be sexy. At what point has Gaga projected that whole 'OH COME ON BOYS DONT YOU WANNA FUCK ME' aura that Madonna constantly does? Just because she uses strong sexual imagery among all the OTHER strong religious/political/cultural imagery she uses doesnt mean she's Madonna or Britney Spears all of a sudden building a career on her vagina and frankly its a testament to how simple-minded some are to use the fact that she is not conventionally PRETTY or SEXY (which she isnt) as an ACCUSATION against her. Too much Madonna and porn I guess. One could argue that Madonna uses sexual iconography and isn't trying to be sexy as well. To me Madonna has never been a traditional sex kitten, her image was always dominant, people just happened to also think she was sexy at one point. Gaga, on the other hand, people generally do not find sexy. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, everyone cannot be sexy. And didn't Gaga once say she's trying to change the way people view sexuality? I think she is very much interested in being a sexual icon but it's just not working out for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Is it the death of sex? Perhaps the symbolic status that sex had for a century has gone kaput; that blazing trajectory is over…" Wtf is this bytch on? What utter rubbish. A four word sentence would have covered all that "Lady Gaga is ugly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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