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Suedehead

Is there a 2nd backlash?

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Guest nothingfails0603

Isn't it weird though that in 2002/2003/2004 all the divas had flops?

American Life - Madonna

Charmbracelet - Mariah carey

Just Whitney - Whitney houston

Damita Jo - Janet Jackson

Just makes ya think :p

the thing that really irked me about that is US radio in general. Mariah's "Glitter" seemed to start the domino effect of big named divas suddenly flopping in sequence with releases afterwards. But yet when Mariah was making her big comeback in 2005, they never thought "well Mariah is hot again, let's welcome Madonna back, let's welcome Janet back, let's welcome Celine back, etc..." as well. If Glitter started a chain reaction of diva floppage, Mimi should've started a chain reaction of divas returning back to the top of the charts, what made Mariah so much more special than the rest of them?

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I don't know if "backlash" is the right word to describe Madonna's situation these days, but something negative is there. You can't have her name mentioned on Chelsea Lately without the panelists cracking jokes about her age and the sort. You see a generation of people who call her "grandma" as if she's Betty White's age. People are so quick to talk about how irrelevant she is when discussing her (forgetting the irony that if she's truly that irrelevant they wouldn't be talking about it). She gets a lot of shit about her age that other artists don't get.

It's just an easy joke. If it were 1990 it would be a slut joke. I don't take that stuff to mean anything, it's what some people do for a living and Madonna is a big name.

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Guest

the thing that really irked me about that is US radio in general. Mariah's "Glitter" seemed to start the domino effect of big named divas suddenly flopping in sequence with releases afterwards. But yet when Mariah was making her big comeback in 2005, they never thought "well Mariah is hot again, let's welcome Madonna back, let's welcome Janet back, let's welcome Celine back, etc..." as well. If Glitter started a chain reaction of diva floppage, Mimi should've started a chain reaction of divas returning back to the top of the charts, what made Mariah so much more special than the rest of them?

Well true,but the idea was that Mariah was in her 30ies when she made a comeback so they felt she wasn't too old I guess. (I totally disagree with this way of thinking) Dispite the shit she gets I always feel really sorry for Janet. Her work hasn't been THAT bad yet she is treated like a leper.

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Guest Coked Up Baby Boy

I think it's only sign of the times. She's 30 years older than the starlets out there and teenagers are very rarely interested in artists as old as Madonna. We can't expect that she will be as big as in year 2000 again. She will have ups and downs, but she will never be loved by all kind of ages. Of course, she's still an icon and she can release fantastic albums that will sell millions, but not from the diverse public that she used to have.

I think there are many reasons. Radio is done with her. MTV cant promote her because all they promote is Jersey Shore. Her age which she cant help has alot to do with it. Mainstream pop is simply not geared toward someone in their 50s. The list could go on. It HAD to happen one day though. Lucky for her though her impact has been so huge that people will probably always see her tour though just so they can say they saw Madonna.

:thumbsup:

I'm not really seeing a backlash as severe as some people are. She always has shit written about her. If she wasn't dating Mehsus and didn't adopt David, she wouldn't get any tabloid coverage outside of pictures of her looking un-airbrushed like many other older celebrities.

She's part of tabloid fodder like any other person in the spotlight :dazed: that's all i see it as. It's not a genuinely negative backlash towards her though, like the SEX era or anything.

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As a young black male with no job, loads of free time, and a wide-variety of friends (different ethnicities, ages, musical tastes, etc.) I'll tell you what the 'young people' think of her:

-Most teens are indifferent to her. Not that they don't like her music, they just aren't fans.

-A whole lot of black folks like her attitude. And she DOES have fanbase in the hood African American community.!

-The LIL MONSTERS think she's a useless, old, washed-up whore who was merely a pre-cursor to Queen Gaga.

-Those teens who call themselves Madonna fans have actually LISTENED to her music. (Most people only know her big-hits/ mainstream songs.)

The average teen doesn't have a negative opinion of Madonna, in fact, they don't have an opinion of her at all. She's a 'legend' which means she's too old to really give a damn about. She's just not on the young folk's radar. It's the OLDER generations that hate her/ dislike her/ trash her.

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As a young black male with no job, loads of free time, and a wide-variety of friends (different ethnicities, ages, musical tastes, etc.) I'll tell you what the 'young people' think of her:

-Most teens are indifferent to her. Not that they don't like her music, they just aren't fans.

-A whole lot of black folks like her attitude. And she DOES have fanbase in the hood African American community.!

-The LIL MONSTERS think she's a useless, old, washed-up whore who was merely a pre-cursor to Queen Gaga.

-Those teens who call themselves Madonna fans have actually LISTENED to her music. (Most people only know her big-hits/ mainstream songs.)

The average teen doesn't have a negative opinion of Madonna, in fact, they don't have an opinion of her at all. She's a 'legend' which means she's too old to really give a damn about. She's just not on the young folk's radar. It's the OLDER generations that hate her/ dislike her/ trash her.

When I was at high School Hung Up, Sorry and 4 Minutes were popular with my classmates and I went to a school where rock and hip hop were more popular :dazed:

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When I was at high School Hung Up, Sorry and 4 Minutes were popular with my classmates and I went to a school where rock and hip hop were more popular :dazed:

That's what I mean: they know the hits (they songs played on MTV) but they wouldn't consider themselves to be fans of Madonna.

Even at my GHETTO High School, these hoodrats started singing Hung Up in the middle of French class. :lol:

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That's what I mean: they know the hits (they songs played on MTV) but they wouldn't consider themselves to be fans of Madonna.

Even at my GHETTO High School, these hoodrats started singing Hung Up in the middle of French class. :lol:

You're right though majority of people are indifferent to her and if they hear a song of hers they liked they'd get it. I just think radio etc... just takes age a tad too seriously. Although personally anyone who still listens to radio is stupid, why be told what you can listen to when you have the net and can find rare gems online. Radio = outdated & archaic.

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Although personally anyone who still listens to radio is stupid, why be told what you can listen to when you have the net and can find rare gems online. Radio = outdated & archaic.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Guest

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:asian: glad you agree. I never listen to radio lol I wanna find music I like :)

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I think it's the whole "you can't stay on top forever" thing more than anything else. I would place Madonna on the same boat as U2. Their last album sold incredibly low for their standards but still performed well in the context of other albums worldwide last year. Their new stuff is hardly played on the radio but you still hear the "classics". Their concerts are massively successful, but at the end of the day they are a bunch of 50 year olds and aren't viewed as "relevant" as Coldplay (who are basically U2 but 30 year olds) are by the media. Just like how Gaga and Britney score hits with songs that Madonna would only get club airplay for, but they're "younger" therefore more marketable.

I don't think anyone should feel bad for Madonna though, she will still always sell "ok" numbers and her concerts are always going to sell out, she just will never be on the pulse of the industry like she was in 1990. At least she's established as someone that will always pull them in onstage, you can't say that about Mariah or Janet, who are pretty much fucked nowadays that radio no longer cares.

This is what makes her an "ICON"

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The average teen doesn't have a negative opinion of Madonna, in fact, they don't have an opinion of her at all. She's a 'legend' which means she's too old to really give a damn about. She's just not on the young folk's radar. It's the OLDER generations that hate her/ dislike her/ trash her.

This is a pretty good summary. A lot of younger people recoil at the mention of Madonna for the same reason they recoiled decades ago - she's vulgar and ugly and needs to give it up. That will never change. They'll either dismiss her because they find her gross, or they just won't care at all.

Once you get off the internet you kinda see that Madonna is really no different from any other celebrity right now. People on the internet call Madonna everything in the book, but they do that to everyone from Angelina Jolie all the way to people as innocuous as Dakota Fanning. It's really not a good way to gauge how people percieve her. In reality (aka "IRL"), everyone's going to have their opinions. If Madonna's commercial career is truly finished now - the fact that it lasted 25 successful years (1983-2008) is pretty damn spectacular. No one else comes close, because even if we count U2 as her closest rival - that's a band of four MALES who haven't had to deal with an iota of the scrutiny that Madonna has dealt with since the day she emerged. I'd say Madonna's achievement is far more impressive. Her plastic surgery, barely-legal boyfriend and her incredibly ungraceful way of aging are easy to poke fun at, but when it comes down to it, MOST people see Madonna as a crazy bitch, so the fact that she lives her life shamelessly is just another thing that makes her Madonna. I continue to admire and love her for that.

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I don't think anyone should feel bad for Madonna though, she will still always sell "ok" numbers and her concerts are always going to sell out, she just will never be on the pulse of the industry like she was in 1990. At least she's established as someone that will always pull them in onstage, you can't say that about Mariah or Janet, who are pretty much fucked nowadays that radio no longer cares.

I am still suprised Janet wasn't able to attract bigger audiences with her last tour. Her last couple albums underperformed, but usually people will still come to hear the classics. It'll be interesting to see how her next tour shapes up.

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This is a pretty good summary. A lot of younger people recoil at the mention of Madonna for the same reason they recoiled decades ago - she's vulgar and ugly and needs to give it up. That will never change. They'll either dismiss her because they find her gross, or they just won't care at all.

Oh, we forgot to mention the fakt that "ONLY HOMOS like Madonna." :lol:

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Guest

This is a pretty good summary. A lot of younger people recoil at the mention of Madonna for the same reason they recoiled decades ago - she's vulgar and ugly and needs to give it up. That will never change. They'll either dismiss her because they find her gross, or they just won't care at all.

Once you get off the internet you kinda see that Madonna is really no different from any other celebrity right now. People on the internet call Madonna everything in the book, but they do that to everyone from Angelina Jolie all the way to people as innocuous as Dakota Fanning. It's really not a good way to gauge how people percieve her. In reality (aka "IRL"), everyone's going to have their opinions. If Madonna's commercial career is truly finished now - the fact that it lasted 25 successful years (1983-2008) is pretty damn spectacular. No one else comes close, because even if we count U2 as her closest rival - that's a band of four MALES who haven't had to deal with an iota of the scrutiny that Madonna has dealt with since the day she emerged. I'd say Madonna's achievement is far more impressive. Her plastic surgery, barely-legal boyfriend and her incredibly ungraceful way of aging are easy to poke fun at, but when it comes down to it, MOST people see Madonna as a crazy bitch, so the fact that she lives her life shamelessly is just another thing that makes her Madonna. I continue to admire and love her for that.

This :fag: I'd hate a conformist Madonna. Madonna who is full of surprises is the best :inlove:

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The average teen doesn't have a negative opinion of Madonna, in fact, they don't have an opinion of her at all. She's a 'legend' which means she's too old to really give a damn about. She's just not on the young folk's radar. It's the OLDER generations that hate her/ dislike her/ trash her.

This is very true! Most of those teens dont know why she is such a legend, she is too distant of their time to even care! Its the older generations that lived enought to know or remember what she did till the end of the 90s and part of this past decade.

That thread about the young boy who doesnt know who she is its a very relevant proof of this point! She is not "current" anymore, unless she makes it really BIG next time, but i belive at this point it will only apeal to us older fans... i dont think she will bother to please Lola's friends anymore. And im ok with that!

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Guest nothingfails0603

The younger generation seems to hate her. I showed West Lake Prayer the post on UKMix with the Justin Beaver fan who believes he's accomplished more in his short career than "Grandma" has in almost 30 years LOL.

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The younger generation seems to hate her. I showed West Lake Prayer the post on UKMix with the Justin Beaver fan who believes he's accomplished more in his short career than "Grandma" has in almost 30 years LOL.

I belive some of this hate has to do with our insistence on pushing through their throat the BIGGER THAN LIFE MIGHT MADONNA POWER :bow:

they just cant take it and rebel! :americanlife:

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Remember nowdays everything else is just icing on the cake. Madonna's legacy is set, Janet's legacy is even set. The two could release flops for another 10 years but it still wouldn't matter as they both have an amazing legacy. And as for all the Justin Bieber (LOL), Lady gaga, Katy Perry etc... having achieved more is utter bullshit. They've released a few albums and had a few hits, big deal, so did Billie Piper (in the UK she had 3 #1's), Paula Abdul etc... just cos you're big now doesn't mean you will be tomorrow. Plus what have any of those achieved? They certainly haven't released anything near nor close to Like A Prayer, Ray Of Light, Rhythym Nation 1812 or Velvet Rope. Let the children think their fads are wonderful because we all know what happens when you reach a peak within a short amount of time.

Sometimes I think my generation feels inadequate and thats why they have little respect for the past generations.

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The younger generation doesn't hate her. I used to visit this big italian music forum where there's a Madonna section. This forum is FULL of teens and most of the them love her or respect her, saying Gaga is just a copy and the usual story. But I live in Italy, and we LOVE/ADORE Vadge over here so :lol:

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Guest bluejean

I think it's the whole "you can't stay on top forever" thing more than anything else. I would place Madonna on the same boat as U2. Their last album sold incredibly low for their standards but still performed well in the context of other albums worldwide last year.

This is true, however keep in mind that particular album lacked any real commercial appeal or hit single material. I would put it more down to that.

It has been proven numerous times that "OLD" artists can strike back in the charts if they release a good song. No, she will never be as cool as she was in the 80's or early 90's, but if she can have a hit at 40 something she can have one at 50 something. She was viewed as "old" and "passed it" when Music or Hung Up topped the charts.

Personally, I don't even care if she never had a top 10 hit again if we get good exciting music out of her. But I just think she will do it, it's Madonna for God sake.

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Guest bluejean

This is very true! Most of those teens dont know why she is such a legend, she is too distant of their time to even care! Its the older generations that lived enought to know or remember what she did till the end of the 90s and part of this past decade.

That thread about the young boy who doesnt know who she is its a very relevant proof of this point! She is not "current" anymore, unless she makes it really BIG next time, but i belive at this point it will only apeal to us older fans... i dont think she will bother to please Lola's friends anymore. And im ok with that!

When I was a teenager Cher had a huge comeback hit. All the teenagers cringed and laughed at it and thought she was an old plastic hag.

Even then, Madonna was viewed as an old hag (13 years ago!) I don't know why "what teens think" even comes up into the conversation. Why would anyone expect Madonna to appeal to that age range?

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It is also important to say something very obvious: the younger generation might feel indiference for her right now, but that doesn't meant that when they grow up, they won't discover her and start appreciating her work. This is what happened to me with many "old" groups and singers, I was too young and was discovering the music, and I started listening the obvious choices: the things that sounded in the radio and in the MTV. As I grew up, I started listening to more alternative music and discovering older acts.

We must accept that she is going to enter the league of older and classic acts that release albums that only interest to her fanbase but still manage to sell out tours (U2, Rollings, Elton...). However, I also think that she can still score hits, like Cher, Elton or Tom Jones did in the past.

Edited by MForever

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She's making shit music and doing half arsed tours - what do you expect the media to do - they know she's capable of brilliance so they ain't gonna pander to her when she's churning out shit and there are loads of young female acts around doing what she used to do in her hey day.

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I don't think she's having a backlash right now. There may be a general sense of Madonna "fatigue" just because she's been around so long, but the Glee soundtrack went to #1 this year, her S&S Tour DVD did respectable business, and she's still the template for major pop stars (notice how many times her name is invoked when Gaga is mentioned in the press). She's doing fine. She's just on hiatus and she'll be back soon enough.

I remember the Sex/Erotica backlash. It was a horrible time (press-wise). I don't even think the American Life period came close, honestly.

I agree with you 100%!

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She's making shit music and doing half arsed tours - what do you expect the media to do - they know she's capable of brilliance so they ain't gonna pander to her when she's churning out shit and there are loads of young female acts around doing what she used to do in her hey day.

^ Yes!

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She's making shit music and doing half arsed tours - what do you expect the media to do - they know she's capable of brilliance so they ain't gonna pander to her when she's churning out shit and there are loads of young female acts around doing what she used to do in her hey day.

Fuck the media, they sway whichever way the wind blows with their opinions anyways. Why does she NEEED the media to pander to her? Like they ever have before...lol. It only matters when the PUBLIC stops coming to your shows and buying your albums. Since S&S is the highest grossing tour ever and the phenomenal Hard Candy sold nearly 4 million copies worldwide, topping the charts in 40 countries, we OBVIOUSLY haven't crossed that bridge yet have we?

BTW....WHO exactly is doing what she did in her hey day? I don't mean on a superficial level either ie: making eye catching videos. I mean who is REALLY doing what Madonna did back then? I don't think anybody really could as she did it already.

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Fuck the media, they sway whichever way the wind blows with their opinions anyways. Why does she NEEED the media to pander to her? Like they ever have before...lol. It only matters when the PUBLIC stops coming to your shows and buying your albums. Since S&S is the highest grossing tour ever and the phenomenal Hard Candy sold nearly 4 million copies worldwide, topping the charts in 40 countries, we OBVIOUSLY haven't crossed that bridge yet have we?

BTW....WHO exactly is doing what she did in her hey day? I don't mean on a superficial level either ie: making eye catching videos. I mean who is REALLY doing what Madonna did back then? I don't think anybody really could as she did it already.

Madonna would have been NOTHING without the media and any superstar needs the media to show a positive image if the artist wants to be relevant.

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Madonna would have been NOTHING without the media and any superstar needs the media to show a positive image if the artist wants to be relevant.

But being relevant is about making music that people like, not having a positive image. There are lots of artists I can name that have a positive image as people like for example Cyndi Lauper but who don't sell very many records. I don't think Gaga has a particularly positive image especially after her coke admission and a lot of people think she's nuts, but her records are still doing well.

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