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Suedehead

Is there a 2nd backlash?

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Seriously though, not to be a drama queen about it, but it seems to me that the past 2 years or so has been most negative press Madonna has gotten since the SEX/Erotica days.

If we do a little timeline thing, we can say that from '98-'02 she was pretty much untouchable for a number of reasons (great music; long-awaited return; married with children so the general public likes the idea of 'cool mum' Madonna settling down and toning it down a little etc.) American Life was a commercial dip, and the Britney kiss generated buzz but really was met with a mixed response from the public so I'd say that '03-'04 were middling years; '05-'07 was good (commercial highpoin with Confessions and STILL MARRIED SO STILL OK even though the leotard again was met with a mixed response) but the adoption sparked the downward spiral if you will.

Then, ironically enough for someone who was playing the age game so well, came her 50th year and the shit hit the fan hard: first was Hard Candy which had a lukewarm critical and commercial response; then the divorce; then the 2nd adoption; then Jesus; then the cheeks. It seemed that it just all turned around for the negative.

And this continues. I struggle to find a single genuinely positive story about her these days (and I don't mean back-handed compliments like "she looks good for 52" at her birthday party thing).

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it all reminds me of '92-'94.

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I think that this backlash (if there is any), has more to do with the fans than with the general public perception.

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I think that this backlash (if there is any), has more to do with the fans than with the general public perception.

I think you're underestimating the public perception, actually. A few years ago my friends and casual acquaintances would either sing her praises or respectfully say something along the lines of how she's a living legend etc. Now it seems she's become a bit of a laughing stock - the surgeries, Jesus, the adoptions. People either dislike her or laugh at her; reminiscent of the '93-'94 years.

As fans we'll always stick by her - we may not always like her most recent record or film or whatever, but most of us will not jump ship this late into the game and she knows that very well.

I genuinely believe that she is at a point where she needs to re-connect with the general public. For better or worse, she needs the public. Even if she doesn't care about selling records anymore or she is assured that she can sell out stadia based on her catalogue of hits, she needs the public to also convey her humanitarian work.

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I think you're underestimating the public perception, actually. A few years ago my friends and casual acquaintances would either sing her praises or respectfully say something along the lines of how she's a living legend etc. Now it seems she's become a bit of a laughing stock - the surgeries, Jesus, the adoptions. People either dislike her or laugh at her; reminiscent of the '93-'94 years.

As fans we'll always stick by her - we may not always like her most recent record or film or whatever, but most of us will not jump ship this late into the game and she knows that very well.

I genuinely believe that she is at a point where she needs to re-connect with the general public. For better or worse, she needs the public. Even if she doesn't care about selling records anymore or she is assured that she can sell out stadia based on her catalogue of hits, she needs the public to also convey her humanitarian work.

:thumbsup:

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I understand your point and I also think that she needs to reconnect with the general public with a wonderful album and tour, but in spite of all the bad press, I truly believe that she is still respected and loved as an artist. Madonna the person is receiving bad press, but her body of work is untouchable. As soon as she comes back in top form, all this backlash will be forgotten.

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I think you're over reacting. First off, Hard Candy's critical response was better than "lukewarm". Here in the U.S, I was surprised at how well it was received. For starters, Billboard (Positive), Blender (4/5 stars), Entertainment Weekly (B+) Rolling Stone (4/5 stars).

Also, a major difference, at the peak of the SEX/Erotica/BoE backlash, no one came to Madonna's defense. Not until Esquire did the Norman Mailer piece. The attacks on her back then were scathing, basically wanting her to vanish. Spin magazine did a piece saying that Madonna had worn out her welcome not just in America but, the PLANET. I don't see anything like that right now. Back then, clubs across the country were deemed cool if they didn't play Madonna. The attacks on her today are mostly "jokes" about her personal life. Also, people eventually came around to her side with the David adoption. Quite a few celebrities came to her defense (Bono, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Beyonce, Oprah Winfrey, Slama Hayek, just off the top of my head).

Yeah, right now people make fun of her age (is anyone surprised by that?) and her face but, I'm sure when she comes out with her next kick ass song or tour, people will be right there with her.

This is NOTHING like what she went through in 1993-1994. I'm pretty sure we wont be reading "thanx for keeping me from doing something I might regret" on her next album's liner notes.

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Guest bluejean

I don't think the backlash is anything like it was back then, partly because Madonna just isn't as relevant as what she was in the early 90's.

But there is certainly a negative perception of her at the moment, especially when you compare now to the Ray Of Light, Music and Confessions days. I think some of it is to do with Hard Candy but it is also to do with the adoptions, the divorce, the plastic surgery and the Jesus thing.

Any huge star will experience this sort of backlash. Michael Jackson did, and it didn't really change until he died. So did Elvis. The thing is, I don't think Madonna cares one bit. She is focusing on directing instead of music, which is a smart move. When she returns Gaga will have burnt out, the world will have missed Madonna and be all ears you can be sure. All she needs to do is deliver some good music.

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She needs another innovative album like ROL to reconnect to the public.

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Seriously though, not to be a drama queen about it, but it seems to me that the past 2 years or so has been most negative press Madonna has gotten since the SEX/Erotica days.

If we do a little timeline thing, we can say that from '98-'02 she was pretty much untouchable for a number of reasons (great music; long-awaited return; married with children so the general public likes the idea of 'cool mum' Madonna settling down and toning it down a little etc.) American Life was a commercial dip, and the Britney kiss generated buzz but really was met with a mixed response from the public so I'd say that '03-'04 were middling years; '05-'07 was good (commercial highpoin with Confessions and STILL MARRIED SO STILL OK even though the leotard again was met with a mixed response) but the adoption sparked the downward spiral if you will.

Then, ironically enough for someone who was playing the age game so well, came her 50th year and the shit hit the fan hard: first was Hard Candy which had a lukewarm critical and commercial response; then the divorce; then the 2nd adoption; then Jesus; then the cheeks. It seemed that it just all turned around for the negative.

And this continues. I struggle to find a single genuinely positive story about her these days (and I don't mean back-handed compliments like "she looks good for 52" at her birthday party thing).

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it all reminds me of '92-'94.

I agree with all this.

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i dont see it as such a terrible period, its just usual of the press to diss her persona but she is really not doing anything worth of interest this days so this is a typical blank year of her career, much like it was in 2002. "She is old", "She is evil", "She is trash"... its the same, she is just MORE old now :lol:

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well, over the years she has become a wee bit cooky not? I mean, the whole Kabbalah circus, the weird outfits in public, her colaborations with teenyboppers and wannabe's, the facial surgery, the body obsession, the not watching tv, the not reading papers, the "I'll endorse anything" from H&M to D&G no matter how crap it is/looks. She's become kinda weird nowadays...

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the "general public" doesn't take her seriously anymore and i can relate. justin duet, baby jesus, cheeks...she just seems desperate and people don't react well to that. i don't. if she'd just be a sexy middle aged lady who still makes great music that's not aimed at her daughters age group, she'd be way more respected. it feels like she's sabotaging herself and destroying her status as an icon by catering to the kids.

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I think the worst is over. 2008 was thea zenith of her bad press. Things have slowly calmed down since then.

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she needs to fuck off the likes of timberfake and guetta and just make an amazing album again, that will be all she needs to reconnect.

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Although I think everyone respects her and everyone considers her to be a living legend, she's simply so easy to trash these days, and I don't really blame them.

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P.S. I know there are a group of people here who pretend like Hard Candy was her best album since the 80's and basically trash the entire Confessions era in order to justify their blind love for that album, but I think Confessions was perfect: the album, era, tour, etc. She was a sexy older woman who wasn't taking herself so seriously. She was simply making great music, fun, fabulous, a little out of control, but all of it was executed with class.

I still love her, obviously, but even I can't help but laugh at her.

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Guest Pud Whacker

hmmm, interesting. ive always found that every few years the press tries to pull her down, since the beginning. lately its been the public. i really dont think people like to see a woman over a certain age behaving a certain way...including her fans.

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I know what you mean, people at my work find her incredible at how she has survived her career, and also at how she still makes lots of money, nevertheless they find her cheao and sometimes vulgar at how she acts her age, mostly because of her Boyfriend.

I really hope she left really behind her Hard Candy era, I think she still can gives us tunes to dance on the dancefloor, but I definetely see a nicer, fancier, more beautiful performance on stage, less jumping and screaming in order that she can have good voice, good notes to sing, and pleaced the general public with elegance and good shows.

I know this might sound a little bit like seeing Celine in concert, but lets remind Madonna was practically the one who starts the teatrical shows convined with technology and great performances.

She still got it.

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I think that this backlash (if there is any), has more to do with the fans than with the general public perception.

That's how I've always felt too. Honestly, the most negative things I've read/heard about Madonna these past couple of years have come out of the mouths of her own diehard fans. One thing I have noticed over the past couple of years is that it seems that her fans on the other side of the pond (I'm in the US) talk of a backlash more than the fans here in the US, so perhaps her press over there has been a bit more negative.

Not to start anything here, but I get the impression from some articles I've read that are from UK etc over the past couple years, that they seem to feel like Madonna has abandoned them in a way....that's overdramatizing it a bit yes, but that's the only way I can think to put it right now...lol. The tone of some of those articles is like a kid who's had his candy taken away. She was so Euro-centric in sound, attitude....I mean she basically was a British woman for a decade...accent and all. So, over that time I think many felt like she was "theirs" now. THEN she drops the Euro sound in favor of the most "American" sounding music popular at the time, divorces Guy and gets with a Brazilian dude 30 years younger than her, switches her homebase to NYC (most of the time). I think that turned a lot of people off to her over there...at least for now.

I can remember the same thing happening here though about 7-8 years ago. She was still "cool" with Music but by the time DAD and SA came out she was already starting to be seen as a "phony". People were like "BITCH...you are from MICHIGAN. Stop talking like a royal." It's funny that the initial post mentions the '03-'04 backlash being smaller compared to this current one because to me it's the opposite. It's not that she was really hated back then...aside from people thinking she's phony....but it's more that nobody really gave a fuck. It was the first time that her songs were COMPLETELY missing the Hot 100, it was the first time a lead Madonna single didn't get major airplay (at least initially), most of her press was coming out of England at that time. It's like Americans just didn't care....until she made out with their "princess" on MTV's stage, then she was back in the limelight again.

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Well I can vouch from my years at the record store :

98-02 : people thought she was cool as fuck.

03-04 : She's crazy she's in a cult & a general sense of 'whatever Madonna'.

05-07 : A large group of the people who 'got' her 98-02 thought she was super commercial crap now, & a lot

of people wanted her 2 cover up her snatch.

08-10 : What a Sad Whore. she's old & over.

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Ok question. Is there something ANYONE could do to avoid being disconnected from the main pop music buyer (mainly young people lets face it) because of age? Everyone gets old obviously so is it a law of nature that an artist/popstar will become irrelevant as they grow old or can quality work and smart image management prevent it?

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I don't think there is a backlash in the UK. I think there is a general indifference - they know Madonna and know every now and again she'll do stuff that comes across at attention seeking and a bit desperate but they also know she can knock out a great tune. It's nothing like '92 - '94, it's just that she's knocked out a couple of indifferent songs and disappeared out of the music scene for the time being after a full on ten years of releases. If she comes back with a killer song and album, people will buy them.

I'm sure she's less worried about this than many of the people on this board.

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And to answer the original question: I dont know, I cant gauge public reaction like that. But if something does worry me, its that Madonna seems to have lost a bit of her amazing instincts and her infallible bullshit detector. She was the ONLY act that I could count on to never make me roll my eyes of feel embarrassed. She was always cool and 'aware'. The past few years she has become a bit of a parody of herself though and that makes me worried and a bit sad and I think thats maybe what makes the general public laugh at her a little bit.

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Guest nothingfails0603

if there was a second backlash, wasn't it in full swing around the time of American Life?

Now it seems like with people who dislike her, it's more indifference than real hatred like you saw in 1993 or 2003. Like said, I think a lot of people have just lost interest either way and she needs another album like ROL to reconnect.

Either way, she still sells out everywhere she goes and is still laughing her way to the bank. She just sadly is no longer on the pulse like she was for so long. She can always return tho IMO.

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I dont see all this negative press thats being talked about. I think for the most part when it comes to Madonna at this point people simply dont care that much anymore. Her older fans will still love her for her past hits and will still see her tour, but many of the more casual ones could care less about her new music. Add to that the fact that the world of pop music is geared toward people in their early 20s/teens/tweens and most of these people have no clue about the career Madonna has had. I still have faith that when she goes into the studio again she could very well come out with something that will blow us and the general public away again, but it just feels like the reign of Madonna in terms of being a mainstream force in the pop world has passed as much as I hate to say it.

I didnt feel like that back when she was "passing the torch" to Britney and Christina. I felt like there was still room for Madonna in the pop world of that time. It does feel like a page has been turned now though. The pop world belongs to the Rihanna's, Gaga's and Katy Perrys of the world and as much as I would like to see it, I dont see Madonna's place at the table anymore because aside from a bunch of gays on a message board there isnt anyone else right now who cares enough to pull up a seat for her.

And again. PROVE me wrong Madonna. Please! Ill be all to happy to know I was dead wrong with her on this one.

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I didnt feel like that back when she was "passing the torch" to Britney and Christina. I felt like there was still room for Madonna in the pop world of that time. It does feel like a page has been turned now though. The pop world belongs to the Rihanna's, Gaga's and Katy Perrys of the world and as much as I would like to see it, I dont see Madonna's place at the table anymore because aside from a bunch of gays on a message board there isnt anyone else right now who cares enough to pull up a seat for her.

Why do you say that? I kind of agree but cant put my finger on the reason. Do you think the pop world has changed or Madonna has sort of lost interested and drifted away?

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I think it's only sign of the times. She's 30 years older than the starlets out there and teenagers are very rarely interested in artists as old as Madonna. We can't expect that she will be as big as in year 2000 again. She will have ups and downs, but she will never be loved by all kind of ages. Of course, she's still an icon and she can release fantastic albums that will sell millions, but not from the diverse public that she used to have.

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Guest nothingfails0603

Why do you say that? I kind of agree but cant put my finger on the reason. Do you think the pop world has changed or Madonna has sort of lost interested and drifted away?

I think it's the whole "you can't stay on top forever" thing more than anything else. I would place Madonna on the same boat as U2. Their last album sold incredibly low for their standards but still performed well in the context of other albums worldwide last year. Their new stuff is hardly played on the radio but you still hear the "classics". Their concerts are massively successful, but at the end of the day they are a bunch of 50 year olds and aren't viewed as "relevant" as Coldplay (who are basically U2 but 30 year olds) are by the media. Just like how Gaga and Britney score hits with songs that Madonna would only get club airplay for, but they're "younger" therefore more marketable.

I don't think anyone should feel bad for Madonna though, she will still always sell "ok" numbers and her concerts are always going to sell out, she just will never be on the pulse of the industry like she was in 1990. At least she's established as someone that will always pull them in onstage, you can't say that about Mariah or Janet, who are pretty much fucked nowadays that radio no longer cares.

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