Stuart Price on why Madonna didnt work with him after COADF

[funkydita]

I would LOVE to hear a proper M and PSB collaboration, I still get wet at the thought of them having her in mind when writing Heart.

[loomer]

Another interesting train of thought 2 b discussed in this thread.

At one point..WBR had contacted the Pet shop boys 4 her next record.

Yes, I was going to say that.

Though I thought it was Mad who wanted to work with the PSBs and Warner made her do Timbaland.

[Kurt420]

So, according to you, Madonna's image is as strong after Hard Candy as it was after COADF? Or is it just my perception and i am telling lies? Just recall the momentum when she performed Hung Up at the MTV awards and compare it with any moment from the very release of Hard Candy and that tour that grossed loads of money (and according to your ideas, having earned so much money means that is good).

I made a point in my post to say in big bold letters I DON'T THINK SALES/AIRPLAY EQUAL QUALITY. Quality is always subjective. Some people hate ROL...most of us here would find that opinion borderline blasphemy...lol. So who's right? Is ROL a late 20th century masterpiece that showcases the musical/spiritual growth of a legend or is it a hodge-podge of weird noises and sometimes abstract phrases thrown together in a desperate attempt to make an aging pop star seem relevant, hip and a true artist? If you are suggesting that I'm suggesting that making $$$ = quality then you are suggesting the same thing by constantly pointing out ways HC didn't live up to COADF performance and "momentum". And just FYI....apparently the momentum after her performance in '05 at MTV Europe Awards was massive everywhere in the world. Here in the US though, outside of gays/Madonna's diehards, there was NO momentum because nobody saw it and HU got very little support on radio before or after that performance.

What I was responding to is you said HC/S&S "lowered her profile". Which makes no sense at all. How does having a hit song, album and tour lower someones profile?? If anything that makes them more bankable for whatever the next thing they are going to do is. So to answer your question about whether Madonna's image suffered post HC:

To some of her diehard fans? YES her image has suffered...but who cares. Her image suffered as soon as it was announced she was working with Timbo, JT and Pharrell, before anybody heard any actual music. Many diehards made up there mind about HC before it was released. The ones that are still pouting that she worked with "black ghetto people that are beneath her" (sorry to put it like that but it doesn't take much reading between the lines with some comments posted by people here over the past couple years) are going to buy the next album and most likely love it anyways. I don't think she was as worried about her diehards with HC, nor should she be. She gave multiple orgasms to most of our ears when she released COADF....that album was for her "pink posse". What's wrong with her doing a sound *SHE* has never done before? That's what Madonna is all about.

To the casual fans? NO her image didn't suffer. We can argue back and forth all day about why 4M was a hit, but the bottom line is this.....it's HER song, on HER album and it became one of the biggest hits of her career. I think unlike the diehards, most casual fans DON'T CARE that she worked with Justin, they just heard the song on the radio, liked it and downloaded it off of itunes and moved on. A casual fan doesn't over analyze the way diehards do. I'd be willing to bet that 4M was either the first Madonna song many ever purchased or the first Madonna song that many had purchased in a long time. That of course helped bring enough interest in HC to have it debut at #1 in 37 countries. I'm not trying to suggest this is the "norm", but I personally know several people who liked and purchased HC who never would've dreamed of purchasing a Madonna album before. Why shouldn't Madonna have done the album? Why should she regret it? Why does everything have to be received like ROL in order to be considered "worthy"?

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Do you think Hard Candy is better than Erotica or Ray of Light?

lets put it this way nes so freaks dont come out of the woodwork. id rather listen to hard candy than erotica and ray of light.

[Flip The Switch]

listen...not better. ufff. Remember is all RELATIVE.

[Supernatural]

I think Erotica and Ray Of Light are better albums because of specific songs on them, but I'm more likely to play Hard Candy. Spotlight isn't art and I enjoy playing that song every so often too.

[Flip The Switch]

I LOVE Spotlight. I always listen to that song on KIIS Fm.

[Glindathegood]

To some of her diehard fans? YES her image has suffered...but who cares. Her image suffered as soon as it was announced she was working with Timbo, JT and Pharrell, before anybody heard any actual music. Many diehards made up there mind about HC before it was released. The ones that are still pouting that she worked with "black ghetto people that are beneath her" (sorry to put it like that but it doesn't take much reading between the lines with some comments posted by people here over the past couple years) are going to buy the next album and most likely love it anyways. I don't think she was as worried about her diehards with HC, nor should she be. She gave multiple orgasms to most of our ears when she released COADF....that album was for her "pink posse". What's wrong with her doing a sound *SHE* has never done before? That's what Madonna is all about.

I think you're making a huge very unfair generalization about people who don't like HC here. I think it's very unfair to say that the people who don't like it are some how against hip hop, R&B or black people. I wasn't against her working with Timbo, JT and Pharell when I heard it. I decided to wait until I heard it. I have actually liked a few songs Timbo has done with other artists such as Rihanna and Nelly Furtado, but to me the songs he did with Madonna on HC were not as good as those songs. He didn't bring his best stuff. I didn't like HC not because I'm against her changing styles or against her trying R&B. I didn't like it because to me the songs weren't very good. I'm definitely not part of any pink posse as I am a straight woman.

I don't think there was anything wrong with her trying R&B or hip hop, but it wasn't executed well. To me, Madonna first and foremost should be about doing good music which to me most of HC was not. There's nothing wrong with her doing a new sound; there is something wrong when it's not done well.

And most of the people who were against her working with those producers were not against it because they are black, but because they feel that they have been overused by other artists and their sound has been heard before. If she had worked with lesser known African American producers with a fresher sound, no one likely would have complained.

And I really don't think HC brought in that many casual fans. If it did it would have sold much more, because we diehards always buy her records even if it's not our favorite album.

[Glindathegood]

And as far as the commercial success or lack of of HC, I think both sides in these arguments exaggerate. It wasn't the huge flop that the HC haters say, but it wasn't quite the great success the HC lovers want it to be. 4 Minutes was a huge hit, but the sales of the album as a whole were somewhat disappointing, though not a total disaster. It certainly wasn't a big comeback or make her profile in the music business higher, but I don't think it did her that much damage commercially either. But I do think artistically it was a huge step backwards for her as far as being respected as a songwriter and an artist.

[GOD]

Exactly.Many pop artists work with the same producers over and over,basically making the same album over and over.Mariah Carey comes to mind.Thankfully,Madonna doesn't do this.As much as I love COADF,I wouldn't want her to repeat it.

Agreed. She used Stuart Price to his FULL potential on that album. There is no way if they ever worked together on an album that they would reach anything equal to that.

[Zezwer]

I think you're making a huge very unfair generalization about people who don't like HC here. I think it's very unfair to say that the people who don't like it are some how against hip hop, R&B or black people. I wasn't against her working with Timbo, JT and Pharell when I heard it. I decided to wait until I heard it. I have actually liked a few songs Timbo has done with other artists such as Rihanna and Nelly Furtado, but to me the songs he did with Madonna on HC were not as good as those songs. He didn't bring his best stuff. I didn't like HC not because I'm against her changing styles or against her trying R&B. I didn't like it because to me the songs weren't very good. I'm definitely not part of any pink posse as I am a straight woman.

I don't think there was anything wrong with her trying R&B or hip hop, but it wasn't executed well. To me, Madonna first and foremost should be about doing good music which to me most of HC was not. There's nothing wrong with her doing a new sound; there is something wrong when it's not done well.

And most of the people who were against her working with those producers were not against it because they are black, but because they feel that they have been overused by other artists and their sound has been heard before. If she had worked with lesser known African American producers with a fresher sound, no one likely would have complained.

And I really don't think HC brought in that many casual fans. If it did it would have sold much more, because we diehards always buy her records even if it's not our favorite album.

Well said!

Just exactly my thought!

[Glindathegood]

Agreed. She used Stuart Price to his FULL potential on that album. There is no way if they ever worked together on an album that they would reach anything equal to that.

I agree, too! I don't think they could ever top COADF! Not only that but to me it's the ultimate dance/club/disco album. I don't think she could top it in general in that genre. That's why I think she ought to go in a different direction on the next album.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

I think you're making a huge very unfair generalization about people who don't like HC here. I think it's very unfair to say that the people who don't like it are some how against hip hop, R&B or black people. I wasn't against her working with Timbo, JT and Pharell when I heard it. I decided to wait until I heard it. I have actually liked a few songs Timbo has done with other artists such as Rihanna and Nelly Furtado, but to me the songs he did with Madonna on HC were not as good as those songs. He didn't bring his best stuff. I didn't like HC not because I'm against her changing styles or against her trying R&B. I didn't like it because to me the songs weren't very good. I'm definitely not part of any pink posse as I am a straight woman.

I don't think there was anything wrong with her trying R&B or hip hop, but it wasn't executed well. To me, Madonna first and foremost should be about doing good music which to me most of HC was not. There's nothing wrong with her doing a new sound; there is something wrong when it's not done well.

And most of the people who were against her working with those producers were not against it because they are black, but because they feel that they have been overused by other artists and their sound has been heard before. If she had worked with lesser known African American producers with a fresher sound, no one likely would have complained.

And I really don't think HC brought in that many casual fans. If it did it would have sold much more, because we diehards always buy her records even if it's not our favorite album.

Yeah, well said.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

C but that's the thing..when I first heard the album I was releived..obviously there r some

signature Tim 'sounds' with the only rehash being DEVIL. But I don't think it's a copycat album at all..

same with the Pharell stuff like SNM & BGO is very Nile Rodgers 'Chic'...'Incredible' is very much

a child of Hard Candy & MA sounds like a Mirwaïs cum Timba mix 2 me...

It's not a "copycat" album, it's just using a sound that had kinda run it's course by the time HC was released.

The whole thing sounded a bit too much like Justin Timberlake or Nelly Furtado left overs. Dance Tonight, Devil, 4 Minutes, ect.....they sound like songs that were tossed around between the 3 of them for 5 years and FINALLY found a home on a Madonna record. Not that it's a big issue or anything, i LIKE the album, it's nicely produced, i just think it was a bit "been there done that" based on what i had been into for the 5 years prior to HC being released. A bit uninspired, that's all.

I'm sure Madonna loves it, and i enjoy it for what it is, but the album does seem like it was "put together" because an album was due and she didn't know what the fuck else to do with it other than work with what was hot at the time. No biggie, but i can feel it in the music. The same can be said for parts of 'Bedtime Stories' as well, difference is, the songs on that album were better than the ones on HC imo [the good ones anyway].

Confessions really seems like it was a project that was nurtured and created from scratch, same with American Life. HC felt like Madonna was picking up too many existing pieces and using them for herself. Too many trademark song transitions and beats that were signature to so many others. Oh well.

[cosmic_system]

I love Hard Candy, but as I said many times before, I hate the production by Timbaland. He ruined Devil and 4 Minutes is also a little messy. I like what they did with Dance 2night, very Prince. Miles Away is also ok. Of course, I HATE the distorted bass on Voice, and don't tell me they wanted it to be that way, because it sounds right and not distorted in the Sticky & Sweet Tour making of.

[IsaacHarris]

I love how well Stuart Price & Madonna worked together.

I thought it was her 'thing' to work with different people every album?

Oh yeah... I still love Hard Candy

[cosmic_system]

I love how well Stuart Price & Madonna worked together.

I thought it was her 'thing' to work with different people every album?

Oh yeah... I still love Hard Candy

Again, it's not. She usually works with the same producer for more than one album. Well, she did that since Ray Of Light.

[Supernatural]

I don't think there is a Madonna tour or full album that you can say is in fact bad, which I think differs from a personal dislike/ disinterest for it.

[Stephen]

Madonna and PSB for next album! I'd DIE!

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

PSB?, maybe 15 years ago

[afrolito]

I made a point in my post to say in big bold letters I DON'T THINK SALES/AIRPLAY EQUAL QUALITY. Quality is always subjective. Some people hate ROL...most of us here would find that opinion borderline blasphemy...lol. So who's right? Is ROL a late 20th century masterpiece that showcases the musical/spiritual growth of a legend or is it a hodge-podge of weird noises and sometimes abstract phrases thrown together in a desperate attempt to make an aging pop star seem relevant, hip and a true artist? If you are suggesting that I'm suggesting that making $$$ = quality then you are suggesting the same thing by constantly pointing out ways HC didn't live up to COADF performance and "momentum". And just FYI....apparently the momentum after her performance in '05 at MTV Europe Awards was massive everywhere in the world. Here in the US though, outside of gays/Madonna's diehards, there was NO momentum because nobody saw it and HU got very little support on radio before or after that performance.

What I was responding to is you said HC/S&S "lowered her profile". Which makes no sense at all. How does having a hit song, album and tour lower someones profile?? If anything that makes them more bankable for whatever the next thing they are going to do is. So to answer your question about whether Madonna's image suffered post HC:

To some of her diehard fans? YES her image has suffered...but who cares. Her image suffered as soon as it was announced she was working with Timbo, JT and Pharrell, before anybody heard any actual music. Many diehards made up there mind about HC before it was released. The ones that are still pouting that she worked with "black ghetto people that are beneath her" (sorry to put it like that but it doesn't take much reading between the lines with some comments posted by people here over the past couple years) are going to buy the next album and most likely love it anyways. I don't think she was as worried about her diehards with HC, nor should she be. She gave multiple orgasms to most of our ears when she released COADF....that album was for her "pink posse". What's wrong with her doing a sound *SHE* has never done before? That's what Madonna is all about.

To the casual fans? NO her image didn't suffer. We can argue back and forth all day about why 4M was a hit, but the bottom line is this.....it's HER song, on HER album and it became one of the biggest hits of her career. I think unlike the diehards, most casual fans DON'T CARE that she worked with Justin, they just heard the song on the radio, liked it and downloaded it off of itunes and moved on. A casual fan doesn't over analyze the way diehards do. I'd be willing to bet that 4M was either the first Madonna song many ever purchased or the first Madonna song that many had purchased in a long time. That of course helped bring enough interest in HC to have it debut at #1 in 37 countries. I'm not trying to suggest this is the "norm", but I personally know several people who liked and purchased HC who never would've dreamed of purchasing a Madonna album before. Why shouldn't Madonna have done the album? Why should she regret it? Why does everything have to be received like ROL in order to be considered "worthy"?

Agreed.

[spazz]

I suggest David Guetta to work on her new album.

[peter]

Again, it's not. She usually works with the same producer for more than one album. Well, she did that since Ray Of Light.

She seems to use the prior producer to ease into the next record. Sometimes a few of the "round 2" children find a home on the record. Sometimes not.

Take Shep Pettibone for instance -- remixed LAP tracks, did a few one-off tracks with her as soundtrack and GH add-ons, then did Erotica as his first full-blown album. After that, she worked with him for Bedtime Stories tracks, but nothing of his ever found a home on the actual release. He eventually got a writing credit for "Secret" because a primitive version of that track was obviously under construction with him in the early stages.

I would suggest that Stuart Price is very similar to Shep in all of this regard. He'd been working with Madonna since 2001 -- was musical director on three tours (DWT, RIT, CT), remixed tracks off of the AL album, co-wrote "X-Static Process" with her, then did his first full-blown album with her (COADF), remixing all the singles (and a few additional tracks) from that album. She had additional material she had worked on with Stuart ("History" being just one example that finally saw release as a B-side), it just didn't transition to the next project -- as explained by Stuart because she wanted an "urban sound" which he "doesn't do." So she moved on to the next producers. But considering he remixed "Miles Away," she obviously hasn't completely dropped him. But he has gone on to work with Seal, the Killers, Kylie, and the Scissor Sisters (not just remixing, but album producing). So, if people are complaining about Timbaland and JT and Pharrell being dated by the time they collaborated with Madonna, then the same argument would apply to Stuart (five years out from COADF and almost ten years from his first work with Madonna).

I love COADF and all Stuart's tour mixes, etc., but I would have been surprised if she had done COADF 2. I heard a convincing rumor from someone at MTV who had spoken with her team during the CT that there would be a part 2 -- and that seemed uncharacteristic of her... So I wasn't really shocked it never happened. She moved on and so did he. The magic evaporated.

It's like Madonna told Shep (whilst recording Erotica) -- not every song can be a "Vogue." You can't always repeat or re-capture a good sound.

Back to your point, Cosmic... I know you're saying post-ROL this is the case, but it goes back further, too. Mirwais really made it the longest (Music, AL, some COADF), but he definitely had an assist from Stuart in the end -- and that's honestly just as much as Orbit, when you consider Orbit did ROL, a few soundtrack songs (TNBT, Austin Powers, AND the Ricky Martin collab), plus a trio of tracks on Music. The output is about the ssame. They're not quite as concretely divided as this album with one person, this album with another, this album with someone else. (ROL had Marius DeVries and Patrick Leonard, among others; Music had Guy Sigsworth, and so did AL, etc.)

[Stephen]

PSB?, maybe 15 years ago

oh cmon, their hits still sound great. West End Girls, What Have I Done To Deserve This...they can make a melody

[IsaacHarris]

I suggest David Guetta to work on her new album.

Oh, what gay-pop-fluff they would create!

[cosmic_system]

She seems to use the prior producer to ease into the next record. Sometimes a few of the "round 2" children find a home on the record. Sometimes not.

Take Shep Pettibone for instance -- remixed LAP tracks, did a few one-off tracks with her as soundtrack and GH add-ons, then did Erotica as his first full-blown album. After that, she worked with him for Bedtime Stories tracks, but nothing of his ever found a home on the actual release. He eventually got a writing credit for "Secret" because a primitive version of that track was obviously under construction with him in the early stages.

I would suggest that Stuart Price is very similar to Shep in all of this regard. He'd been working with Madonna since 2001 -- was musical director on three tours (DWT, RIT, CT), remixed tracks off of the AL album, co-wrote "X-Static Process" with her, then did his first full-blown album with her (COADF), remixing all the singles (and a few additional tracks) from that album. She had additional material she had worked on with Stuart ("History" being just one example that finally saw release as a B-side), it just didn't transition to the next project -- as explained by Stuart because she wanted an "urban sound" which he "doesn't do." So she moved on to the next producers. But considering he remixed "Miles Away," she obviously hasn't completely dropped him. But he has gone on to work with Seal, the Killers, Kylie, and the Scissor Sisters (not just remixing, but album producing). So, if people are complaining about Timbaland and JT and Pharrell being dated by the time they collaborated with Madonna, then the same argument would apply to Stuart (five years out from COADF and almost ten years from his first work with Madonna).

I love COADF and all Stuart's tour mixes, etc., but I would have been surprised if she had done COADF 2. I heard a convincing rumor from someone at MTV who had spoken with her team during the CT that there would be a part 2 -- and that seemed uncharacteristic of her... So I wasn't really shocked it never happened. She moved on and so did he. The magic evaporated.

It's like Madonna told Shep (whilst recording Erotica) -- not every song can be a "Vogue." You can't always repeat or re-capture a good sound.

Back to your point, Cosmic... I know you're saying post-ROL this is the case, but it goes back further, too. Mirwais really made it the longest (Music, AL, some COADF), but he definitely had an assist from Stuart in the end -- and that's honestly just as much as Orbit, when you consider Orbit did ROL, a few soundtrack songs (TNBT, Austin Powers, AND the Ricky Martin collab), plus a trio of tracks on Music. The output is about the ssame. They're not quite as concretely divided as this album with one person, this album with another, this album with someone else. (ROL had Marius DeVries and Patrick Leonard, among others; Music had Guy Sigsworth, and so did AL, etc.)

You're right on everything. I'm just saying it's not really true that she doesn't use the same producer twice like some people said.

[GimmeSomeMo]

HOLY HELL

[XXL]

This doesn't even make sense. How can a hit album and having the most successful tour ever by a

solo artist "lower her profile"?? The "horrible" tour is nothing more than your opinion and based on the critical and fan

reviews you are actually in the minority with that opinion. Even the fans that hated HC tended to like the tour. I'm not

dissing your OPINIONS because you are entitled to like what you like.

But why do you make up lies all the time and present them as fact? Or do you actually believe them?

[Queen Bitch]

Madonna really has to get over her ego and realise that she's OVER in the US and try and maintain a profile in countries where she's still popular. Godga has proved that Euro dance/pop can be huge in the US so COADF's lack of success there was down to Madonna, not the style of music.

[XXL]

Say what you will people but 4 Minutes was great.

My fav tracks off hard candy happen to be the Pharrell tracks - although I love Miles Away.

Madonna is the ONLY musical artist in the history of popular music to have consistently great albums throughout her career- all the way into her 50's. So really stop being so petty and nit-picky. There are some that I dont particularly think are her best (Erotica, Ray of Light) but I know what they are and how other people love them and how they shape and are far superior to her contemporaries.

Finally someone speaking the Truth