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Do you want another tour so soon?


Guest Madlover033003

  

116 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want another tour so soon?

    • Yes! It's Madonna performing DUH!
      40
    • No! It's too soon! I want another album!
      68
    • Indifferent
      8


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I would hardly call double-dutch jump-roping while singing "Into the Groove" 'minimum effort.' At 50, no less! The woman is a hard worker -- do not insinuate that it's "easy" work to do what she does. If she was really about minimum effort, she'd stand in the center of the stage with a microphone and lip synch all of the songs -- she might not even hire any dancers to do anything around her, because THAT would save her a lot of money. She'd build a simple stage -- no catwalk/runway -- and maybe she wouldn't even do any backdrop videos, because THAT would also save her some money (not having to pay the editors and photographers/directors she works with to create them). Madonna's tours have a high production value.

Just because the tour was not up to everyone's taste levels does not mean she didn't work hard at it. Yes, that brought her a lot of money, but she earned it. And perhaps some of the music on the album was influenced by the fact that she WANTED to perform that live. ("Spanish Lesson" anyone? She admitted that was born out of a dance craze -- which she obviously wanted to performe live. So it got included on the album. Is that NOT artistic integrity? She included something she wanted to include. We just have to accept it -- by choosing to go see her or choosing not to see her. "Simple as.")

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he's right. sure, money has motivated her greatly over the years. But when she first started, it was about proving she was as good as any male performer, she could break through boundaries, she could dare to be different, she could push her audience as far as she could and they'd go with her.

Now she lacks any creativity as shown by Hard Candy and the tour. Even her last few videos since Hung Up have lacked any kind of merit at all.

She wasn't always about the money. Now she is.

Why are you here then?

Bye.

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Minimum effort means creatively, not physically.

I'm sorry but it takes less effort to come up and conceive a stage show and set list than it does to write personal, meaningful lyrics, with stunning melodies and break new boundaries musically and visually in videos. It takes more talent and intelligence to make the world stop and take notice than it does to put on a bad wig and dance your way through an apalling mix of Give It 2 Me.

By hopping on r'n'b bandwagon, she loses artistic integrity. By putting almost the same tour two years running, she is lazy. Not physically lazy, but creatively lazy.

You have to admit she's in a creative cul-de-sac.

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Minimum effort means creatively, not physically.

I'm sorry but it takes less effort to come up and conceive a stage show and set list than it does to write personal, meaningful lyrics, with stunning melodies and break new boundaries musically and visually in videos. It takes more talent and intelligence to make the world stop and take notice than it does to put on a bad wig and dance your way through an apalling mix of Give It 2 Me.

By hopping on r'n'b bandwagon, she loses artistic integrity. By putting almost the same tour two years running, she is lazy. Not physically lazy, but creatively lazy.

You have to admit she's in a creative cul-de-sac.

Really? And how many tours and albums have you conceived and put together to gather this expert opinion. And let me remind you everything you are sharing is your OPINION. Not everybody shares it.

Sorry but you sound like a fan who's been around for a while who is just sour that she isn't doing what YOU think she should do. That is FACT. Pull the stick out of the hole. Another FACT.

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By hopping on r'n'b bandwagon, she loses artistic integrity. By putting almost the same tour two years running, she is lazy. Not physically lazy, but creatively lazy.

But that just proves peter's point, that people are confusing their own personal taste with her not making an effort or being creative. You don't like R&B and consider it bandwagon jumping. I don't like R&B either, but I admit that is my personal bias, and not about Madonna not making an effort or being creative. Plenty of people accused her of bandwagon jumping on electronica when she did ROL, but people didn't complain as much because they like dance/electronica more.

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But that just proves peter's point, that people are confusing their own personal taste with her not making an effort or being creative. You don't like R&B and consider it bandwagon jumping. I don't like R&B either, but I admit that is my personal bias, and not about Madonna not making an effort or being creative. Plenty of people accused her of bandwagon jumping on electronica when she did ROL, but people didn't complain as much because they like dance/electronica more.

She did the same in 1994 with Bedtime Stories.

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Guest Danny86
Just because the tour was not up to everyone's taste levels does not mean she didn't work hard at it. Yes, that brought her a lot of money, but she earned it. And perhaps some of the music on the album was influenced by the fact that she WANTED to perform that live. ("Spanish Lesson" anyone? She admitted that was born out of a dance craze -- which she obviously wanted to performe live. So it got included on the album. Is that NOT artistic integrity? She included something she wanted to include. We just have to accept it -- by choosing to go see her or choosing not to see her. "Simple as.")

Brilliant!!! :clap:

I'm sorry but it takes less effort to come up and conceive a stage show and set list than it does to write personal, meaningful lyrics, with stunning melodies and break new boundaries musically and visually in videos.

I can't comprehend to this. A show is much more complex than writing a song, I'm quite sure Madonna would admit this anytime. You seem to forget Madonna makes more than one video for each tour, which means the video what you want to be #1 effort becomes just PART of the show.

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You seem to forget Madonna makes more than one video for each tour, which means the video what you want to be #1 effort becomes just PART of the show.

Quite right! She personally made TWO videos for S&ST -- the "Die Another Day" interlude with Tom Munro and the "Get Stupid" interlude with Steven Klein. So she made as many videos for the tour as she did for the album! *AND* the "Miles Away" video came about from tour footage, so really the tour gave you MORE videos than the album did. (Not to mention that she's surely involved in the creation of the other backdrop videos -- all those videos have to be created by others, of course, but she scrutinizes them and makes notes for edits. Watching S&S on the Sky1 broadcast files, I can see so many times where her choreography or movements interact cleverly with the backdrop videos -- swirling her baton in a curve during "Candy Shop" while a swirl develops on screen behind her, the seismic aftershocks of the heartbeats in "Heartbeat" rocking her body on stage... I mean, all this is also creative energy, not just lazy, half-baked, phoning in her performance.)

Furthermore, a song like "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" was obviously crafted with great care and creativity. It's gone through multiple versions, as fans have known of the track since 2004 (originally rumored to be included in the 'showgirl' section of RIT). Even if you don't like the treatment that ended up on the album, she'll almost surely re-invent the song later on down the road. It's a strong song, the lyrics are not boring or lazy or re-treading the time/tick-tock/no-waiting/no-hesitating theme or anything like that.

I'll admit, I didn't really care for the wig or the glasses (or the whole costume) during the last section of S&S. But did I enjoy the show and have a good time? Heck, yes! The last section was fierce -- and I also admittedly don't care for the rock version of "Hung Up." I STILL was on my feet, jumping, dancing, and singing along. (NYC crowds' enthusiasm helps.)

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Guest Danny86

The choreography itself has a lot of effort in it, she dances the most since BAT, she used a whole new set of various choreographers, including signing fresh young talent like Hamutsun Serve or Chicago Footworkingz. She didn't let the dancers do the bulk of the work anymore like on the previous 3 tours either. But of course, it's a rushed and unimaginative show because she did some squatting in BGO, spasming in SNM and the ROL backdrop (1 out of 22 backdrops in the show) was not new. :doh:

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People who like Hard Candy hear a dance album, people who dislike Hard Candy hear an R&B album. Discuss.

People hear an R&B album because of the names that are in the CD booklet. People heard an R&B and album and assumed the worst before they heard the album. Remember the outrage when the names were confirmed? Hard Candy is a dance/pop album with R&B influences. I think most fans of REAL R&B would laugh at the notion of HC being a straight up R&B album. Perhaps that is why some don't like it though? Maybe she didn't go far enough with the R&B sound? It seems like some fans didn't mind her doing some R&B as long as it didn't have the Timbo/Timberland/Pharrell sound. But that defeats the whole purpose of working with who she worked with for the album.

Really, when has Madonna EVER done anything but a dance/pop album? All of them may be influenced by different popular/up and coming sounds of the time, but they are all dance/pop. She's managed to stay true to those roots all these years, which is why she can incorporate different styles of music into her dance/pop sound and it still comes out sounding like a "Madonna album". That and the seemingly endless well of catchy hooks and melodies she still manages to come up with.

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Really? And how many tours and albums have you conceived and put together to gather this expert opinion. And let me remind you everything you are sharing is your OPINION. Not everybody shares it.

Sorry but you sound like a fan who's been around for a while who is just sour that she isn't doing what YOU think she should do. That is FACT. Pull the stick out of the hole. Another FACT.

Sorry to disappoint but there's no stick in my hole. I'm an objective fan. I can her strengths and I can see her weaknesses. That's not me being sour or negative, that's me being rational. That's me being a fan.

No, she's not doing what I want her to do, and backed up by apalling sales of Hard Candy and Celebration, she's not doing what the majority of people who used to buy her music want her to do either. That is a FACT.

i'm here because despite her current poor output, i have faith that she can come back and wow us again.

You have your opinion, I have mine. that's the purpose of a forum. Not to suggest people pull metaphorical sticks out of metaphorical holes.

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Sorry to disappoint but there's no stick in my hole. I'm an objective fan. I can her strengths and I can see her weaknesses. That's not me being sour or negative, that's me being rational. That's me being a fan.

No, she's not doing what I want her to do, and backed up by apalling sales of Hard Candy and Celebration, she's not doing what the majority of people who used to buy her music want her to do either. That is a FACT.

i'm here because despite her current poor output, i have faith that she can come back and wow us again.

You have your opinion, I have mine. that's the purpose of a forum. Not to suggest people pull metaphorical sticks out of metaphorical holes.

:clap:

Although I'm not so sure about her coming back with something good the way I have been during her previous creative lulls.

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But that just proves peter's point, that people are confusing their own personal taste with her not making an effort or being creative. You don't like R&B and consider it bandwagon jumping. I don't like R&B either, but I admit that is my personal bias, and not about Madonna not making an effort or being creative. Plenty of people accused her of bandwagon jumping on electronica when she did ROL, but people didn't complain as much because they like dance/electronica more.

I do like r'n'b actually, when it's done well. I don;t think the majority of Hard Candy was done well.

The beauty of madonna is that she was the one who brought these little know producers to work with her and the results were electrifying. Stuart Price, Mirwais and Orbit weren't massive names when she worked with them, and that's when she created something fresh and new.

Working with Timbaland and Timberlake and Pharrell AFTER they were at their creative peak did not work when it came to album sales.

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People who like Hard Candy hear a dance album, people who dislike Hard Candy hear an R&B album. Discuss.

It's funny to me how some people refer to Hard Candy as an "R&B album".The album is dance/pop with a little bit of hip-hop attitude thrown in.Timbaland and Pharrell are huge fans of Madonna's 80s recordings and they simply updated her signature sound.Most of today's R&B albums are filled with midtempo grooves and rappers on every other track.Hard Candy is largely uptempo and tailored to the dancefloor,much like COADF.

Listen to Hard Candy,then listen to a "real" R&B album,like Mary J.Blige or Mariah Carey.You can tell the difference.

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People hear an R&B album because of the names that are in the CD booklet. People heard an R&B and album and assumed the worst before they heard the album. Remember the outrage when the names were confirmed? Hard Candy is a dance/pop album with R&B influences. I think most fans of REAL R&B would laugh at the notion of HC being a straight up R&B album. Perhaps that is why some don't like it though? Maybe she didn't go far enough with the R&B sound? It seems like some fans didn't mind her doing some R&B as long as it didn't have the Timbo/Timberland/Pharrell sound. But that defeats the whole purpose of working with who she worked with for the album.

Really, when has Madonna EVER done anything but a dance/pop album? All of them may be influenced by different popular/up and coming sounds of the time, but they are all dance/pop. She's managed to stay true to those roots all these years, which is why she can incorporate different styles of music into her dance/pop sound and it still comes out sounding like a "Madonna album". That and the seemingly endless well of catchy hooks and melodies she still manages to come up with.

Exactly!

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Brilliant!!! :clap:

You seem to forget Madonna makes more than one video for each tour, which means the video what you want to be #1 effort becomes just PART of the show.

Fair comment, I didn't take that into account.

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Guest Danny86
not doing what I want her to do, and backed up by apalling sales of Hard Candy and Celebration, she's not doing what the majority of people who used to buy her music want her to do either. That is a FACT.

I find it quite lame to use sales as a justification for one's taste. Also, most people who used to buy her old music, are not buying music now, period. After 1987 most of her sales can be named as "appalling" because there were always several female acts who did at least 2-3 times more than her then-current albums. So following your logic, she's been shit since then because she never reached that peak again.

The beauty of madonna is that she was the one who brought these little know producers to work with her and the results were electrifying. Stuart Price, Mirwais and Orbit weren't massive names when she worked with them, and that's when she created something fresh and new.

That's a misconception, working with someone unknown does not make anything "new and fresh". In case you didn't know, "Revolver" is the first song which was co-produced by DJ Frank E yet it sounds like something Bloodshy & Avant would do. Still, Madonna was the first to use him as a main collaborator. Also, Stuart was not a massive name but he didn't do anything new for Madonna, even though he has several experimental remixes and solo songs, what he did for Madonna was mostly 80s synth pop remixed. Not to mention that discovering new names neither describes the majority of her career, nor is related to her most successful period.

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Guest bluejean

Minimum effort means creatively, not physically.

I'm sorry but it takes less effort to come up and conceive a stage show and set list than it does to write personal, meaningful lyrics, with stunning melodies and break new boundaries musically and visually in videos.

It is ALOT more effort to put a live show together and tour it around the world than it is to record an album.

I enjoyed Hard Candy and loved Sticky and sweet. Hard Candy was a good album but didn't really have enough of its own spark to stand out to the masses.

S&S does not have the same sort of artistic merit as Blond Ambition or Drowned World. It was more a concert catering to a mainstream audience than a work of art. Not a bad thing, that is what most acts do and the show was hugely entertaining. But I guess some fans are used to Madonna having something more to say and expect her to always be that sort of artist.

I think she could go back in that direction once more. Her last few projects have been mostly fun and frivilous. That's what she was when she started. I don't think it's purely about money, it's more just the state of mind she's been in.

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S&S does not have the same sort of artistic merit as Blond Ambition or Drowned World.

I heard so many people complain Drowned World was boring. You cannot win everyone over but no matter the argument her tours are termendously successful. I doubt any of Mariah Carey's fans will complain about her tours- but in the end no one is going to them.

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