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The next decade for M


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No US airplay does not nullify the fact that a song like "Celebration" was #1 on European airplay. She might only want to work with European hitmakers from now on, but there's no evidence for Madonna holding back the "art" because of the US charts.

Yeah, but I definitely think Hard Candy was a knee-jerk reaction to wanting some mainstream success in the U.S. However, I shouldn't really use that as a point of argument because I actually like that album. So I don't really know what I am complaining about. :lol:

In the Rolling Stone interview from October though, she did say she prefers singing songs like "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" even though they are less-pop friendly (and not big hits from the past), and I would love more stuff like that (good lyrics, introspective, etc.)

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Guest Madlover033003

i will GUARANTEE that in this upcoming decade - without a doubt - she will turn 60. I mean unless she dies then duh the guarantee is over.

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Yeah, but I definitely think Hard Candy was a knee-jerk reaction to wanting some mainstream success in the U.S. However, I shouldn't really use that as a point of argument because I actually like that album. So I don't really know what I am complaining about. :lol:

In the Rolling Stone interview from October though, she did say she prefers singing songs like "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" even though they are less-pop friendly (and not big hits from the past), and I would love more stuff like that (good lyrics, introspective, etc.)

The thing is; I think she should have released that as a single. Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but that COULD have been a big single for her. It's in the same route of APOLOGIZE and a couple Justin Timberlake big ballad singles. Like it or not, it could have been quite successful in the markets where she didn't do well regarding follow up singles. I honestly thought "Devil..." could have repeated the success of "TAKE A BOW" (in the U.S.) if released as a single accompanied by a big video.

I guess in the end, it doesn't matter because her Sticky and Sweet Tour was huge. That is where the real bread was earned. It would have been nice to have another big single to back it up, but the tour was quite a success.

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Guest missy bi_tch

write, produce and release an album targeted at the senior citizens and have a rock solid-selling album like Susan Boyle

david foster? who did subo work with?

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Guest Danny86

Yeah, but I definitely think Hard Candy was a knee-jerk reaction to wanting some mainstream success in the U.S. However, I shouldn't really use that as a point of argument because I actually like that album. So I don't really know what I am complaining about. :lol:

In the Rolling Stone interview from October though, she did say she prefers singing songs like "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" even though they are less-pop friendly (and not big hits from the past), and I would love more stuff like that (good lyrics, introspective, etc.)

Well then you can easily say the albums between BS and HC were all knee-jerk reactions to get the European market, where she faltered a bit between 1990 and 1998. :p One way or another she was still going for a hit and I think the division between US and non-US music doesn't stand these days when it's the same 5-6 acts dominating every year worldwide, with those "British treasures" like Mika flopping hard now, not just in the US. If she works with Guetta, it won't be an "European only hitmaker" decision because IGF and "Sexy Bitch" were big in the US, same way how Timbaland was huge in Europe in 2006-7, I think his stuff with Nelly eventually got bigger in Europe than in US.

DWRY is often disregarded by fans as a cheap way to get a hit because it sounds like Justin's ballads, but I guess Madonna was correct and *for her* it was a new style and that wouldn't have necessarily translated into a pop friendly success. To me it's the absolute highlight of HC. She has also been obsessing over "Candy Shop" and many signs imply she had strong feelings for GI2M as well.

I think a lot of fans are so eager to draw the distinction between "the music Madonna likes" and "the music Madonna has to make to get a hit", which I don't think is a fair distinction. In the past Madonna often spoke low about certain genres or acts she's embracing now, like she hated techno music yet she ended up working with European producers who made electronica/techno (which is supposedly her own signature sound according to some fans), she said ABBA was boring, she ended up sampling them. Recently she's been dissing ballads and that she can't write one anymore, yet the bulk of the 90s was about ballads for her. She was quick to jump on the house bandwagon after LAP and remixed everything with Shep, yet now she's been deconstructing the Erotica singles on tour without any slight resemblance to Shep's music. I think she often changes her mind, but she doesn't have a preferred genre, she knows she has to like what's currently hot and trendy. And before anyone says Madonna should be doing their own thing, I believe this is her own thing, instead of sticking at one place and doing the same music with slight changes, she has to make these jumps but that doesn't necessarily mean she's shoving it down her throat without enjoying it.

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Hopefully she'll be happy and healthy. Hopefully a new album with A-Trak/DJ Medhi will come to light. More investment in pop music videos and promotion. A tour in Australia and Asia.

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DWRY is often disregarded by fans as a cheap way to get a hit because it sounds like Justin's ballads, but I guess Madonna was correct and *for her* it was a new style and that wouldn't have necessarily translated into a pop friendly success. To me it's the absolute highlight of HC. She has also been obsessing over "Candy Shop" and many signs imply she had strong feelings for GI2M as well.

Most fans who hate that song hate it because yes, it sounds like a boring retread of Justin's hits prior to it. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way. How Madonna feels about it is irrelevant. It may have been new to her, but to the millions of people who had already lived through Cry Me A River/What Goes Around/Rehab, it wasn't. This argument always comes up. For every person who loves Devil, there is one who loathes it. It's always been a very divisive song and its not hard to see why. It's not like Take A Bow where she did the same thing (taking Babyface's already well-established R&B balladeering sound) and only a select portion of fans dislike it. Devil was made in an age where its a lot easier to dismiss assembly-line songwriting.

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I don't see Devil as a divisive song at all. Okay there may be a few people who didn't like it, but I think most fans thought it was good. Certainly, nothing like how most people feel about Spanish Lesson.

I definitely don't like HC as a whole, but Devil is one of the songs I do like along with Voices and Miles Away.

It's not an exact copy of Cry A River etc. It sounds somewhat similiar but so do a lot of songs. In this day and age, it's hard to create a song that's in a totally new genre and unlike anything that's ever been heard before.

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I don't see Devil as a divisive song at all. Okay there may be a few people who didn't like it, but I think most fans thought it was good. Certainly, nothing like how most people feel about Spanish Lesson.

I definitely don't like HC as a whole, but Devil is one of the songs I do like along with Voices and Miles Away.

It's not an exact copy of Cry A River etc. It sounds somewhat similiar but so do a lot of songs. In this day and age, it's hard to create a song that's in a totally new genre and unlike anything that's ever been heard before.

Spanish Lesson I don't see as divisive at all. The majority of people hate it. :lol:

Voices is the one brilliant moment on Hard Candy IMO, I definitely agree with you there. Miles Away is good too, if a little boring. Devil just makes me cringe, it's one of the most embarassing things she's done musically in my opinion. Lyrically it's fine - everything else is just total cliched crap. If anyone saved that song at all it was Madonna with whatever she contributed. I can hear Justina all over that song and it sounds like he was going through the motions as usual. I think he even made a similar song for that YouTube chick that he got signed to a record label. The worst. That whole sound should have just ended with What Goes Around.

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I hardly think Devil is embarassing musically. Maybe your opinion is colored because you don't like Justin Timberlake. I had heard Cry A River and What goes around, but overall I'm not that familiar with a lot of Justin's music or productions. I'm not a fan of Justin but I don't dislike him either. I just approached Devil as a song, and not thinking of the other things Justin had done.

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For this decade, I hope she does what she thinks is best. Gut reaction means everything and it's what has kept her here for nearly 3 decades.

She already has an audience that will spend major dollars on her tours, but I hope she gets back that passion for music again.

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Guest Danny86

I hardly think Devil is embarassing musically. Maybe your opinion is colored because you don't like Justin Timberlake. I had heard Cry A River and What goes around, but overall I'm not that familiar with a lot of Justin's music or productions. I'm not a fan of Justin but I don't dislike him either. I just approached Devil as a song, and not thinking of the other things Justin had done.

Yeah, I guess it just comes down to not liking the "original product" and not wanting Madonna to sing over it. I have the same issue with "You'll See", I often go on about how it's just a Celine wannabe song with the exact same "dramatic" David Foster drum pattern that's even in MJ's "Earth Song", but a lot of others seem to love it and even call it "classic Madonna", while in my opinion it's one of her songs when she tries hard to sing so different from her usual.

I thought "Take A Bow" was quite divisive as well? I imagined moreso than DWRY, because it got a lot more attention and I read many opinions about it being an "undeserving" #1 in the wake of the poor brave misunderstood Erotica project.

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Yeah, I guess it just comes down to not liking the "original product" and not wanting Madonna to sing over it. I have the same issue with "You'll See", I often go on about how it's just a Celine wannabe song with the exact same "dramatic" David Foster drum pattern that's even in MJ's "Earth Song", but a lot of others seem to love it and even call it "classic Madonna", while in my opinion it's one of her songs when she tries hard to sing so different from her usual.

I thought "Take A Bow" was quite divisive as well? I imagined moreso than DWRY, because it got a lot more attention and I read many opinions about it being an "undeserving" #1 in the wake of the poor brave misunderstood Erotica project.

You'll See is awful too (for me) for the same reasons. As for Take A Bow, I never saw it as divisive as some other tracks - I always get shat on everytime I diss it on here.

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Yeah, I guess it just comes down to not liking the "original product" and not wanting Madonna to sing over it. I have the same issue with "You'll See", I often go on about how it's just a Celine wannabe song with the exact same "dramatic" David Foster drum pattern that's even in MJ's "Earth Song", but a lot of others seem to love it and even call it "classic Madonna", while in my opinion it's one of her songs when she tries hard to sing so different from her usual.

Do a lot of hardcore Madonna fans like You'll See and see it as a classic Madonna song? I haven't really read a lot of people raving about it on forums. I think it's an okay song, but not among her best. But I'm always surprised when I talk to people who aren't really Madonna fans and ask them what song of hers they really like. They invariably say You'll See, which surprises me because it wasn't one of her biggest hits. You'll See is a Madonna song for people who don't usually like Madonna! In that sense, it was a perfect choice of Susan Boyle's album.

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Guest Danny86

I did see several rediscovery praising for YS because of Susan Boyle, but even before that, when people were missing it from Celebration, and in fact GHV2, it sort of became a forgotten single for her because of those omissions, but some fans still hold on to it. Agree that it's probably more appealing to people who generally don't pay much attention to Madonna's music.

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Guest Sephyr

I would like to see an album every 3 years each different from each other.

1. acoustic, soul-bearing new songs

2. heavy rock album

3. dance album celebrating the 20th anniversary of Ray of Light w/ reuninitng of William Orbit/Marius Devries/Patrick Leonard.

I'd like to see her do more movies/tours/maybe a few remix/unreleased eps for itunes

I know she's got so much left in her and I can't wait to see whatever she's going to do.

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I hardly think Devil is embarassing musically. Maybe your opinion is colored because you don't like Justin Timberlake. I had heard Cry A River and What goes around, but overall I'm not that familiar with a lot of Justin's music or productions. I'm not a fan of Justin but I don't dislike him either. I just approached Devil as a song, and not thinking of the other things Justin had done.

I'm inclined to agree, but of course, I like "Devil." I think it is a great track in terms of lyrics. I think the production could be a little stronger but the bridge is fucking awesome. I still don't hear that much similarity to Justin's ballads. I really would love to see some side-by-side sheet music because when I try to imagine "Devil" over "Cry Me A River" or "What Goes Around" - the tempo doesn't even seem to fit.

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I thought Devil was one of the best songs on HC, if not the best. Had it had an amazing video, this could ve been a big hit for her.

You ll see is classic Madonna. Great SONGWRITING for a change, great lyrics, great message (very Madonna), great VOICE and more...

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Guest Danny86

I'm inclined to agree, but of course, I like "Devil." I think it is a great track in terms of lyrics. I think the production could be a little stronger but the bridge is fucking awesome. I still don't hear that much similarity to Justin's ballads. I really would love to see some side-by-side sheet music because when I try to imagine "Devil" over "Cry Me A River" or "What Goes Around" - the tempo doesn't even seem to fit.

It's not a note-by-note rip off, it's just the overall feel, none of her songs are complete rip offs, not even something like "Future Lovers" or "Get Together" that drew heavily from older songs, they are still not like SAWmill when the notes and everything were the same. I don't even think CMAR and WGA are that similar, I loved WGA almost instantly while I still don't really care for CMAR and I prefer the other Justified singles over it by far.

The piano and the rain from DRWY does recall CMAR but the beat itself is more WGA. The one-line chorus in all 3 songs is the most blatant similarity in my opinion, it's just Justin's style of songwriting. The "I bet he couldn't..."is very similar to one parts of WGA, I think it's the "Don't wanna think about it..." verse, which is also typical Justin. I think he did say he wanted to turn the "devil wouldn't recognize you" phrase into a hook, so you know what his contribution was.

DWRY is one of Madonna's least-typical songs in terms of songwriting, just like in WGA, there are several different sections of the melody, whereas Madonna is usually a lot more formulatic and she just exchanges verses and choruses, this is an obvious Justin-influence, you can spot the same thing in 4M and "Dance 2Night" as well, but those songs are still sung in the "Madonna way" (and many songs on HC are more "complex") while in DWRY it's a bit like she's actually trying to sing like Justin. A lot of times she said they made her sing different from her comfort zone, and she repeated it was a deeper collaboration with songwriters, so she could experiment with different stuff, the 1998-2005 albums are mainly her own lyrics/melodies sung over the producers' instrumentals.

I wish we had the chance to her the original DWRY. Supposedly it was performed on the RIT instead of "Deeper And Deeper" and I can't help to notice the piano of DWRY is almost just a faster version of the piano played in D&D. I wonder if that means the original DWRY was sung in the same way as D&D and most of the song was not reused in the Justin reinvention.

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Most fans who hate that song hate it because yes, it sounds like a boring retread of Justin's hits prior to it. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way. How Madonna feels about it is irrelevant. It may have been new to her, but to the millions of people who had already lived through Cry Me A River/What Goes Around/Rehab, it wasn't. This argument always comes up. For every person who loves Devil, there is one who loathes it. It's always been a very divisive song and its not hard to see why. It's not like Take A Bow where she did the same thing (taking Babyface's already well-established R&B balladeering sound) and only a select portion of fans dislike it. Devil was made in an age where its a lot easier to dismiss assembly-line songwriting.

I've never heard those songs.

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i'd definitely like to see her try her hand at acting one more time.

possibly a supporting role in a film with a great script

or just a cameo in a quentin tarrantino film or something funny like that

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:thumbsup: This is a long shot but I would love to see a "Greatest Hits" Tour before she retires. Similar to Re-Invention where the songs were still recognizable. People may disagree, but she has such a great catalog of work that needs to be heard live again one more time. Even if she sang many of them in melody form I would be satisfied.
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I don't think a GH tour is inevitable at all. In fact I think it's unlikely. She'll always sprinkle in a few reinvented classics, but a straight tour of old hits? Don't think so....and thank god.

And why are people acting like this is her last decade? Like she has to cram all of this work and legacy in, before she turns 60. :wacko:

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Sorry, but besides the die hard fans like us, Mainstream is not going to want to see a woman in her 60's or 70's jumping around on stage in lingerie. That's why this is appearing to be her final years of performing. Eventually M will know when it's time to throw in the towel and the idea she'll be able to attract the next wave of teeny boppers is a laugh. There is nothing wrong with revisiting the past.

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