CELEBRATION: A RETARDATION.

[Guest bluejean]

And now I just wonder, was the mastering of Celebration SO BAD? We made miracles in the past to listen music and they were in REAL POOR quality...

Yes, when I was 7 years old.

Which is about the age I estimate the person who edited these songs must be.

[Guest bluejean]

Go back and you'll see I basically stated that as I noted a little more than 2 mins left between the two discs. And you're right they could have added another song if they used a different edit of the longer songs. But you know what, I really don't think they thought too much about the time, rather they were considering what songs they were going to use.

They could have fit 2 more songs.

[loomer]

FYI - the collection was mastered by Pat Kraus at WEA Studios in Los Angeles.

A Google search reveals he's done a lot of stuff as well - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&rlz=1I7GFRE_en&q=Pat+Kraus+mastering&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[Carta]

The pops and clicks on "Music" are really bad on my CD - bluejean, you can't hear any at all on yours? There's also some slight crackling near the start of "Hung Up", as the ABBA sample is building (around the 30 second mark), but then it's fine.

For those who have downloaded it from iTunes, are the pops/cracks there, too?

[peter]

And I can't believe the American Life album had track indexing errors.

I noticed this, but I always thought it was sort of a ridiculous anti-piracy effort. (As around that time, wasn't she releasing the "What the f-- do you think you're doing?!" mp3s?) I thought the beginnings of tracks were clipped (by being purposely attached to the previous track) so that people couldn't rip it to mp3 as easily, or if they did, it wouldn't sound quite right.

But maybe it was just an error. After reading that complicated mess I just typed, it actually sounds more probable that someone made an error. Sad, given the digital age in which it was produced.

[Bellenger1981]

Music, on the other hand, I can't notice any clicks either.

I just downloaded a leaked version of the album. Here are some of the pops in "Music" that I notice -- :08, :22, :29, :34, 1:16, 1:24, 2:16, 2:25 (bad), 2:28 (bad), 2:42, 2:49, 3:08, 3:34. There are others, but those are just some. Again, these are from an MP3 file, and I cannot confirm that these are on the CD. However, this is the only track that I notice severe clicks and pops. If these pops and clicks are really present on the CD then I would expect a recall from Warner. I really can't see them getting away with this without people noticing. I just can't believe how poorly this project has been handled. No quality control whatsoever.

Can we get someone like TheRain to do a fixed up version of Celebration and post it in the multimedia section. I know we aren't meant to post official released stuff, but I say in this case, stuff them.

Would love to! However, you guys would have to let me know which versions/edits you want included. Some versions I wouldn't be able to fix, however, since I don't have access to remastered versions (i.e. "Cherish") ... unless this is a remastered LP version of "Cherish" here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Mum-Various-Artists/dp/B000ECXCKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253330323&sr=1-1

Are my ears deceiving me, or is "Dress You Up" a completely different mix?

No. Sounds a bit different to me ... besides the cut intro, of course.

Is that Mariah on the table?

FYI - the collection was mastered by Pat Kraus at WEA Studios in Los Angeles.

Thank you. And yes, Pat has done a lot of stuff, including mastering 'GHV2'. Makes me wonder if it is his fault or Warner's fault for messing it up.

By the way, that edit of "Cherish" is just atrocious, which is a shame since the audio quality is excellent. The fade is almost as bad as the official "Radio Edit" of "Hollywood". Awful!

[Bellenger1981]

Can you imagine what we'll get for the DVD release now? I'm scared if the CD is this shoddy what will happen with the DVD collection. Hopefully the videos will feature re-synced digitally remastered audio (without flaws and poor edits, of course). I may be able to grab a few remastered sources from there for a fixed 'Celebration' CD if the audio has in fact been remastered on the DVD, too. Something tells me that it hasn't, however, given the budget and carelessness of this project.

[loomer]

Could you not clean them up with home made approximations of remasters, The Rain, with audacity or whatever?

[Flip The Switch]

I don't know if these issues will be fixed in a future, I don't if I will buy it.

[Flip The Switch]

Has anyone from M's camp has an idea about this mess?

[Guest SoUnusual]

Should have just had remastered album versions for everything!

[moe]

Thanks to all the MadonnaTribe readers who emailed us following our "Mess You Up" news piece and spotting more mistakes in the editing of the "Celebration" double cd liner notes.

Earlier today we reported about mistypes in the credits for Dress You Up and Celebration, and a more serious mistake involviong author William Orbit, strangely credited for production on La Isla Bonita along with Madonna and Patrick Leonard and Die Another Day instead of Mirwais.

The Tribers spotted some more minor typos but unfortunately also some more serious errors...

Cherish: A typo turned Patrick Leonard's surname into Leonardt in the production credit.

Beautiful Stranger: Patrick Leonard is credited as a co-writer instead of William Orbit.

Papa Don't Preach: the production credits are missing altogether.

Revolver: this is the only song that features recording credits. This is also quite noticeable as they are printed in bold. And the idea that this is due to the fact it is a new track would not help, because there are no recording credits for Celebration that is a new song, too.

These inconsistencies and errors can also be a little more serious than simple graphic editing issues, because they are likely to match what is printed in the label copy, and this could mean that wrong authors will be paid for songs they were not involved with (and vice-versa).

[Guest SoUnusual]

Thanks to all the MadonnaTribe readers who emailed us following our "Mess You Up" news piece and spotting more mistakes in the editing of the "Celebration" double cd liner notes.

Earlier today we reported about mistypes in the credits for Dress You Up and Celebration, and a more serious mistake involviong author William Orbit, strangely credited for production on La Isla Bonita along with Madonna and Patrick Leonard and Die Another Day instead of Mirwais.

The Tribers spotted some more minor typos but unfortunately also some more serious errors...

Cherish: A typo turned Patrick Leonard's surname into Leonardt in the production credit.

Beautiful Stranger: Patrick Leonard is credited as a co-writer instead of William Orbit.

Papa Don't Preach: the production credits are missing altogether.

Revolver: this is the only song that features recording credits. This is also quite noticeable as they are printed in bold. And the idea that this is due to the fact it is a new track would not help, because there are no recording credits for Celebration that is a new song, too.

These inconsistencies and errors can also be a little more serious than simple graphic editing issues, because they are likely to match what is printed in the label copy, and this could mean that wrong authors will be paid for songs they were not involved with (and vice-versa).

[Flip The Switch]

Thanks to all the MadonnaTribe readers who emailed us following our "Mess You Up" news piece and spotting more mistakes in the editing of the "Celebration" double cd liner notes.

Earlier today we reported about mistypes in the credits for Dress You Up and Celebration, and a more serious mistake involviong author William Orbit, strangely credited for production on La Isla Bonita along with Madonna and Patrick Leonard and Die Another Day instead of Mirwais.

The Tribers spotted some more minor typos but unfortunately also some more serious errors...

Cherish: A typo turned Patrick Leonard's surname into Leonardt in the production credit.

Beautiful Stranger: Patrick Leonard is credited as a co-writer instead of William Orbit.

Papa Don't Preach: the production credits are missing altogether.

Revolver: this is the only song that features recording credits. This is also quite noticeable as they are printed in bold. And the idea that this is due to the fact it is a new track would not help, because there are no recording credits for Celebration that is a new song, too.

These inconsistencies and errors can also be a little more serious than simple graphic editing issues, because they are likely to match what is printed in the label copy, and this could mean that wrong authors will be paid for songs they were not involved with (and vice-versa).

Thanks for posting.

What a disaster in all levels.

[Carta]

This reminds me a little of George Michael's "Twentyfive" - "Freedom" (WHAM!) has a major glitch in it in one particular part, to the extent that I returned the CD and exchanged it for a new copy. The glitch was still there. I was travelling overseas shortly after that and I checked it out at a listening post - the glitch was still there.

[Guest bluejean]

I just downloaded a leaked version of the album. Here are some of the pops in "Music" that I notice -- :08, :22, :29, :34, 1:16, 1:24, 2:16, 2:25 (bad), 2:28 (bad), 2:42, 2:49, 3:08, 3:34. There are others, but those are just some. Again, these are from an MP3 file, and I cannot confirm that these are on the CD. However, this is the only track that I notice severe clicks and pops. If these pops and clicks are really present on the CD then I would expect a recall from Warner. I really can't see them getting away with this without people noticing. I just can't believe how poorly this project has been handled. No quality control whatsoever.

Would love to! However, you guys would have to let me know which versions/edits you want included. Some versions I wouldn't be able to fix, however, since I don't have access to remastered versions (i.e. "Cherish") ... unless this is a remastered LP version of "Cherish" here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Mum-Various-Artists/dp/B000ECXCKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253330323&sr=1-1

No. Sounds a bit different to me ... besides the cut intro, of course.

Thank you. And yes, Pat has done a lot of stuff, including mastering 'GHV2'. Makes me wonder if it is his fault or Warner's fault for messing it up.

By the way, that edit of "Cherish" is just atrocious, which is a shame since the audio quality is excellent. The fade is almost as bad as the official "Radio Edit" of "Hollywood". Awful!

Oh God I just listened to Music again and I CAN hear it LOL. On the CD!!

They will HAVE to fix that at the very least for future pressings.

TheRain, you can fix Cherish by taking the transition from the bridge to the chorus at 1.35 and using this at the glitch at 2.55.

Express Yourself will be impossible to fix as there aren't remastered versions of both versions.

As for the DVD, we'll be lucky if they DON'T remaster or edit any audio. Otherwise who knows what we'll see. Madonna mouthing the words during an instrumental break in Ray Of Light perhaps?

*Radio stations replace radio edits with Celebration versions as we speak*

[Bellenger1981]

Could you not clean them up with home made approximations of remasters, The Rain, with audacity or whatever?

Yes, I could, using Sony Sound Forge. It's just not the same as a professional working from the original master tapes. However, I could give it a shot. What exactly do we need tweaked? Here's what I'm thinking:

*"Hung Up". Will listen for the pop/click and remove it.

*"Music". It probably should just be replaced with the "LP Version" on 'Music'. The mastering on that is fine, in my opinion. Otherwise, I could attempt to remove the pops and clicks throughout. Haha. But, there are so many.

*"Vogue". I would love to replace this with the "Single Version". What do you guys think? I'll see what I can come up with in terms of a remaster.

*"4 Minutes". It's 4 minutes to save the world and therefore should be 4 minutes long like the album version. The "LP Version" should replace the "Radio Edit".

*"Holiday". I can re-create the fixed "7" Edit" version from the 2009 Pat Kraus remaster.

*"Everybody". I will re-create the official "7" Edit" version from the 2001 Ted Jensen remaster.

*"Like A Virgin". Obviously, this can be replaced with the 2001 Ted Jensen LP Version remaster.

*"Like A Prayer". If someone can send me a WAV file of the "7 Version w/o Fade" I can attempt a remaster of this.

*"Ray Of Light". Replace with the standard 1998 "LP Version" master. I don't think that this really needs a new remaster.

*"Express Yourself". I have the "7" Remix" in WAV format! I can attempt a remaster of this.

*"Open Your Heart". Replace with the 2001 Ted Jensen "LP Version" remaster ... or maybe even the "Video Version" if a remastered version surfaces on the DVD.

*"Borderline". Replace with the Jellybean "7" Edit". Will wait and see if a remastered version makes the promo video for the upcoming DVD. Otherwise, I'll attempt a remaster myself.

*"Erotica". Replace with the 2001 Pat Kraus remaster of the "Radio Edit".

*"Dress You Up". Replace with the 2001 Ted Jensen "LP Version" remaster.

*"La Isla Bonita". Would still love to include the "7" Remix" of this, but I don't have access to a high quality WAV file.

*"Papa Don't Preach". Prefer the "LP Version" myself since the "Edit" version fades too early, in my opinion. Can upload my 2001 Ted Jensen remaster of the "Edit" version again, nonetheless.

*"Lucky Star". Replace this with the fixed "7" Edit" of the 2001 Ted Jensen remaster.

*"Crazy For You". Replace this with the 2004 Pat Sullivan remaster from the '13 Going On 30' soundtrack.

*"Frozen". Replace with the "Radio Edit" version from the 2001 Pat Kraus remaster.

*"Take A Bow". Replace with the "Edit" version from the 2001 Pat Kraus remaster or re-create it using the 2009 Pat Kraus remaster.

*"Live To Tell". Re-edit a new "7" Edit" from the 2009 Pat Kraus remaster.

*"Hollywood". Use the intro from the official "Radio Edit" and paste on the "LP Version" after it in order to avoid the "American Life" fade-out as heard in the intro.

"*Die Another Day". Take the "LP Version" from the 'Die Another Day' soundtrack so that the first split second of the song is not missing (as on 'Celebration' and 'American Life' from an indexing error).

*"Don't Tell Me". Replace with the official "Radio Edit" version from the U.K. CD single.

*"Cherish". Perhaps the song in most need of a new edit. Would love to replace this with the "Video Version" of the track, which I think is the definitive edited version. Hopefully, I'll be able to pull a remastered version of this from the DVD release. If I can't, however, I'll do an A/B comparison from the 'Immaculate Collection' DVD to the 1989 mastered "LP Version" and see what I can do in terms of remastering ... unless that 'For My Mum' compilation features a remastered version of "Cherish" in it's "LP Version". Then I can just edit from there.

Thoughts? Comments? Ideas?

And slightly off topic ... http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7789098 In late 2008 Warner Bros. issued a 50th Anniversary box set with "Like A Prayer" included. Apparently, all tracks on this box have been remastered. Does anyone know which version of "Like A Prayer" is featured? I'll assume that it's the "LP Version". I'd be curious to know if it is something else, however.

[Guest bluejean]

It is listed as the 7" Version. It's missing the first few seconds from the intro, apparently it's supposed to be like that.

[sanders8323]

TheRain, I agree with all the versions you've listed. I've always wondered where you could find La Isla Bonita's 7" remix? I have no clue.

And the version of EY you want to use...is that the radio remix or the Shep remix used in the video?

Edited September 19, 2009 by sanders8323

[Guest bluejean]

Oh and it's 5.24 in length. I only have a 192kbps mp3. You will have to track down the WAVE file.

[neutrocks]

Sorry guys, but I still don't hear any pops/clicks in "Music". I checked TheRain mentions where he claims to hear it, and I don't hear it. Again, I am using very good headphones and this song is very crisp and clear with no pops and clicks.

[ahafan02]

Well, as mentioned, I've listened to this a few times now and while I do notice some edits, it's really not as bad as I think you and some others are making it out to be. Maybe you're right, it could have been better remastered from the actual originals, but from what I'm hearing, this is pretty damn good still. A lot of the tracks have been digitally mastered when originally put on the albums from LAP and onwards. The older tracks and the ones never remastered, sound much better than the originals. Even the versions used from the TIC sound even better. As for the edits, it's only noticeable to us because we know what the originals or other mixes sounded like. I don't really think they are that bad!

I guess it's just a matter of perception.

Will you just shut up you f'ing loon. The "remastering" job is awful...WTF were they thinking...

[neutrocks]

Will you just shut up you f'ing loon. The "remastering" job is awful...WTF were they thinking...

What a sweetheart you are!

[Flip The Switch]

FYI - the collection was mastered by Pat Kraus at WEA Studios in Los Angeles.

I'm afraid that's Jesus alias. lol

[Bellenger1981]

It is listed as the 7" Version. It's missing the first few seconds from the intro, apparently it's supposed to be like that.

Are you referring to "Like A Prayer" on the Warner Bros. 50th Anniversary box set? Where is it listed as the 7" Version? I've had my eye on this box since it was released (and not just for "Like A Prayer" either), so I'd be curious to know.

[Bellenger1981]

TheRain, I agree with all the versions you've listed. I've always wondered where you could find La Isla Bonita's 7" remix? I have no clue.

And the version of EY you want to use...is that the radio remix or the Shep remix used in the video?

Some kind person posted the 7" Remix of "La Isla Bonita" in the Multimedia Forum a while back in 192 kbps MP3 bitrate. It was a CD rip from some rare '80s Warner promo I believe, so the audio quality wasn't up to today's standards. The only problem with the 7" Remix of "La Isla Bonita" is the earlier fade than the "LP Version", fading out some of her vocals at the end that can be heard clearly in the "LP Version". I never liked that. However, as a whole, I think that the mix is better (since it's essentially based on the "Extended Remix") than the "LP Version".

As for "Express Yourself", I'm referring to the radio remix, the version that's more or less a spiced up version of the original 'Like A Prayer' "LP Version". I consider this to be the definitive version of the song. In fact, I heard it on the radio the other week. Honestly, I've never really been fond of Shep's remix version (as used in the video). And honestly, I think that the "Video Version" is awful. Why cut the "Local Mix" intro into the Shep remix? It just does not flow together. An edit of the "Local Mix" should have been used instead. The "Local Mix" is, of course, essentially the same mix as the radio remix version.

[Bellenger1981]

Sorry guys, but I still don't hear any pops/clicks in "Music". I checked TheRain mentions where he claims to hear it, and I don't hear it. Again, I am using very good headphones and this song is very crisp and clear with no pops and clicks.

Consider yourself lucky. Maybe you got a good copy? Maybe it's a manufacturing error. Some Warner divisions may have pressed bad copies.

[Flip The Switch]

Consider yourself lucky. Maybe you got a good copy? Maybe it's a manufacturing error. Some Warner divisions may have pressed bad copies.

he's obviously lying and not accepting the facts.

[Guest IJustFuctMadonna]

When a digital master is made, it's made. If a pop is on one, it's on the others. That's how CD mastering works. Honestly, I can see how some people would not notice the clicks but if you're so used to the original masters, this version is pretty obvious.

[GimmeSomeMo]

he's obviously lying and not accepting the facts.

BOOM.