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CELEBRATION: A RETARDATION.


Mattress

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I imagine I'll enjoy the album- heck, I thoroughly enjoy The Immaculate Collection, and look how some hardcore fans go on about that one. Not everyone will be satisfied- I mean, the closest-to-perfect product could be put out, and I have no doubt that someone out there still would find something they didn't like about it. Just the way of the world.

I agree, but I feel like this is a repeat of the thread regarding which versions were being used before everyone knew which ones were actually being used. Remember how everyone got bent out of shape (wanting to write petitions, etc.) because a few were convinced most all the songs were pulled from TIC? It was pure speculation and people just went ape shit over it. The same is going on here. Many people commenting haven't even heard the 2 CD set. They are relying on a few who have heard it and have an issue with what I consider quite trivial. As mentioned, I am on my second run on the album and everything sounds great. I am listening with my BOSE headphones. It sounds fantastic. And while I agree a few edits make no sense, there are a lot great aspects to this album. "Dress You Up" sounds incredible!!! "Into The Groove", "Lucky Star", "Everybody" and "Burning Up" are awesome!! "Revolver" sounds better than the leak from the other day. You can hear her vocals much better.

Anyway, I am just trying to offer an alternate response here since so many people are so upset.

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I'm sorry, wil you butt in in EVERY THREAD to post your cut and paste 'stop being negative' bullshit? I think everyone GETS IT by now. You're just fucking spamming.

and everyone GETS that positive posts drive you into a tizzy! every fucking time.

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'clicking' on music like for fuck sake what a joke!

I've just re-listened to "Music", I don't hear any "clicking noise". I am listening to the song through BOSE headphones. I hear a lot of the effects and percussion which I am wondering if some are confusing as "clicking"??

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I want so badly to ask if anyone could send a rip of the album my way. But I'm also trying really hard to hold off until Sept. 29th.

Do I give in and listen, or do I wait until the release date?

Ugh, my very own 'Sophie's Choice!'

I gave in. I figured I've heard all the new songs and all the songs on this CD. But if you hold out, more power to you. ;)

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^That's good, and appreciated. I don't remember exact exchanges, but it's fine to do that- if you want to keep it positive, though, do just that and not comment negatively on someone else's viewpoint.

I find it odd that WB would not just stick to one kind of version- i.e. either all radio/single versions, all album versions or all Immaculate Collection versions (as unpopular as they may have been with some hardcore fans. hehe) OK, I can see how using all album versions would not work (given running time). And I can see how it would not want to use all IC versions. So why not all radio/single versions? That is my biggest head-scratcher. Just looks so random fo them to use an album version here, a radio edit there and an IC version here or there.

Maybe WB should have gone with all radio/single edits- but on that note, tracks like "Frozen" and "Hung Up" are more enjoyable in their lengthier versions. So, again, it's likely that any route WB took would not satuisfy everyone.

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I'll go see if I can dig up what specific methods they used. Although one big bonus was that Peter Hook was alerted and dashed off a royally pissed missive on his MySpace page. I kinda doubt Madonna would do something like that.

Who here is on Guy Oseary's Twitter list again?

summon it up ursa!

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^That's good, and appreciated. I don't remember exact exchanges, but it's fine to do that- if you want to keep it positive, though, do just that and not comment negatively on someone else's viewpoint.

I find it odd that WB would not just stick to one kind of version- i.e. either all radio/single versions, all album versions or all Immaculate Collection versions (as unpopular as they may have been with some hardcore fans. hehe) OK, I can see how using all album versions would not work (given running time). And I can see how it would not want to use all IC versions. So why not all radio/single versions? That is my biggest head-scratcher. Just looks so random fo them to use an album version here, a radio edit there and an IC version here or there.

Maybe WB should have gone with all radio/single edits- but on that note, tracks like "Frozen" and "Hung Up" are more enjoyable in their lengthier versions. So, again, it's likely that any route WB took would not satuisfy everyone.

Actually, if you read back, I only responded to basically an attack on me. It was unwarranted. I think I have every right to respond to that to clarify where I stand. But I did ignore the other attacks by the other member which I hope Admin. will deal with. ;)

And Holiday Guy, believe me... once you hear all these in the way it's presented, you're not going to care what versions and edits made. You may hear the differences, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it just the same. I know I am. In fact, I think the 2nd CD is so far my favorite, apart to that the first CD sounds just as fantastic.

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That is my biggest head-scratcher. Just looks so random fo them to use an album version here, a radio edit there and an IC version here or there.

I thought they put the shorter IC mixes on there cause they ran out of space. But apparently there was some room? :blink:

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I thought they put the shorter IC mixes on there cause they ran out of space. But apparently there was some room? :blink:

The running time of the tracks are 157.44. In other words, they pretty much used the customary 80 mins sparingly on both CDs. I imagine they had to make many compromises to make things fit.

"Holiday" and "Frozen"are deservingly the longest tracks in this package. And I am not a huge fan of "Frozen", but it sounds fantastic here. And "Miles Away" fits quite well between "Frozen" and "Take A Bow".

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I actually like the idea of using Immaculate Collection mixes in some cases. For me, I'd use them for "Lucky Star," "Material Girl," "Cherish," "Vogue," and maybe "Holiday."

For everything else, I'd use the radio/single edits (except, of course, for those that never had official edits).

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Guest IJustFuctMadonna

I'm wondering what they did with the Q sound, cause as Mattress said before, that's the way it was originally mastered and you can't get rid of it.

Do these Q sound mixes sound any better? Surely they'll clash with the rest of the album.

Q Sound has nothing to do with mastering. It's with MIXING. It's a process that was used to mix songs. There was an actual console sold to people to do it. Nowadays, the safe effect can easily be done with ProTools during the mixing process.

The edits in general are just LAZY, including the fade-ups on American Life tracks. It's obvious they didn't even go back to the original masters (which would be been TAPE masters from 1982-1995!). They simply took the CD versions and tweaked the bass and edited them with some shitty audio program. What a fucking joke. Who is the mastering engineer quoted in the booklet? That person should be hung up by the balls (if it's a guy). Damn. This is the laziest shit, and instead of blaming Warner Bros, blame Madonna because SHE HAS APPROVAL POWER in her releases! She almost always has. People don't understand that.

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Q Sound has nothing to do with mastering. It's with MIXING. It's a process that was used to mix songs. There was an actual console sold to people to do it. Nowadays, the safe effect can easily be done with ProTools during the mixing process.

The edits in general are just LAZY, including the fade-ups on American Life tracks. It's obvious they didn't even go back to the original masters (which would be been TAPE masters from 1982-1995!). They simply took the CD versions and tweaked the bass and edited them with some shitty audio program. What a fucking joke. Who is the mastering engineer quoted in the booklet? That person should be hung up by the balls (if it's a guy). Damn. This is the laziest shit, and instead of blaming Warner Bros, blame Madonna because SHE HAS APPROVAL POWER in her releases! She almost always has. People don't understand that.

May I ask? Have you heard the 2 Cd set yet?

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Guest IJustFuctMadonna

Yes, I have heard it. Horrible edits. HORRIBLE. I mean, anybody with some time and patience can perfectly match up the beginning and ends of beats and figure it out. And how hard can it be to track down the original tapes/files? Or at the very least, use a promo as a source (she can easily afford to BUY them if they can't locate any otherwise). It really is a shame. My guess is that some of the final decisions about versions were made at the very last minute, and some asstard was given 10 hours to edit all those tracks together. That's the only explanation I can think of. Again, Warners/Rhino has done much better quality stuff. Sure, they've fucked up some big releases, but they've also released some good archival stuff recently.

By the way, mastering isn't simply tweaking volume. It's making sure an entire album sounds good on ANY sound sytem, carefully tweaking EQ (bass/treble/everything in between), normalizing - or not, hopefully NOT adding too much - or any - hiss reduction, and really making an album sound the best it can sound. Good mastering engineers are highly sought after, and the most famous (Bob Ludwig is one) are often seen on major releases. You can't just do a good mastering job with some rinky dink set-up. Even mixers and producers hardly ever master because it requires such skill.

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Guest IJustFuctMadonna

Oh, and if you Google "brickwalled cds," you'll also find out a bit more about why this CD is far from "exquisitely remastered." I love Madonna and it pains me that such last-minute (I hope that's it) laziness has fucked up what is likely to become the definitive compilation of her most popular years.

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Guest ursaminorjim

For what it's worth - found this on Pitchfork:

For some of us, it's enough to simply bask in the new wavey warmth of New Order's finest recorded moments, many of which found their way onto Rhino's recent spate of expanded reissues. But for a certain type of New Order fan, superlative audio quality is a must, and-- oh yeah-- it would be nice if all the tracks were correctly labeled, too.

Turns out there are quite a few of these diehard fans out there, and they were none too happy with the way the deluxe editions of Movement, Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life, Brotherhood, and Technique turned out. They started a message board thread on the matter, compiling some 300 perceived errors between the 10 discs in the five packages, ranging from audio glitches and pops and crackles to sleeve note slip-ups to tracks on the bonus discs being flat-out mislabeled. Yikes.

Well, the uproar has caught the attention of the appropriate parties, including Peter Hook, who wrote on MySpace late last month that he and his people were "aware of the problems" and would "try and remedy the situation."

Now comes official word from Rhino, Warner Bros. UK, and the New Order camp acknowledging at least the audio errors and noting that they will be corrected-- and suggesting fans may be able to exchange their defective copies for new ones. Observe:

"Warner Bros. UK, Rhino, and New Order regret that the initial pressings of the Collector Editions of Movement, Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life, Brotherhood, and Technique contain some minor audio problems on the bonus discs. We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary. A further statement will be issued once the corrected product is available. At that time, the procedure for exchanging CD's will be announced. Thank you for your patience while we resolve this situation."

So there you have it, at least until that "further statement" arrives. As for me, I might just hang on to these inferior versions in the hopes they one day become ultra-rare collectors' items I can sell to put my kids through college.

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Yes, I have heard it. Horrible edits. HORRIBLE. I mean, anybody with some time and patience can perfectly match up the beginning and ends of beats and figure it out. And how hard can it be to track down the original tapes/files? Or at the very least, use a promo as a source (she can easily afford to BUY them if they can't locate any otherwise). It really is a shame. My guess is that some of the final decisions about versions were made at the very last minute, and some asstard was given 10 hours to edit all those tracks together. That's the only explanation I can think of. Again, Warners/Rhino has done much better quality stuff. Sure, they've fucked up some big releases, but they've also released some good archival stuff recently.

By the way, mastering isn't simply tweaking volume. It's making sure an entire album sounds good on ANY sound sytem, carefully tweaking EQ (bass/treble/everything in between), normalizing - or not, hopefully NOT adding too much - or any - hiss reduction, and really making an album sound the best it can sound. Good mastering engineers are highly sought after, and the most famous (Bob Ludwig is one) are often seen on major releases. You can't just do a good mastering job with some rinky dink set-up. Even mixers and producers hardly ever master because it requires such skill.

Well, as mentioned, I've listened to this a few times now and while I do notice some edits, it's really not as bad as I think you and some others are making it out to be. Maybe you're right, it could have been better remastered from the actual originals, but from what I'm hearing, this is pretty damn good still. A lot of the tracks have been digitally mastered when originally put on the albums from LAP and onwards. The older tracks and the ones never remastered, sound much better than the originals. Even the versions used from the TIC sound even better. As for the edits, it's only noticeable to us because we know what the originals or other mixes sounded like. I don't really think they are that bad!

I guess it's just a matter of perception.

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For what it's worth - found this on Pitchfork

Time to start another petition :lmao: - http://www.gopetition.com/online/30192.html

I don't think this will do anything of course, as it's a mass market product and Greatest Hits with many thousands of copies already pressed as opposed to New Order's niche market deluxe reissues for hardcore loons (and they've every right to be pissed off as it's aimed at them), but we should do it anyway

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I recall the Pet SHop Boys were annoyed that the album version of HEART was on POP ART not the single version, that slipped through the cracks

These things happen

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Guest IJustFuctMadonna

Um. Yeah. In this case, it happened A LOT. Obviously, nobody in M's camp gave a shit, otherwise they'd have directed people to the correct versions.

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I recall the Pet SHop Boys were annoyed that the album version of HEART was on POP ART not the single version, that slipped through the cracks

These things happen

Discography is the best GH ever. :wow: :wow:

It's what TIC should've been. Pop Art had even better new songs as well.

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  • DRESS YOU UP - FUCKED UP INTRO
  • What the hell happened here? This isn't a mix variation so much as a mastering error... the album version started late with severe tape pinch/phasing issues right at the top. Of the four beats on the intro, all but the fourth are missing.

Looks like MadonnaTribe really were right there. :lmao: It IS an "album edit" of sorts. They were right about Lucky Star and Cherish as well.

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Guest bluejean

they pretty much used the customary 80 mins sparingly on both CDs. I imagine they had to make many compromises to make things fit.

"Holiday" and "Frozen"are deservingly the longest tracks in this package. And I am not a huge fan of "Frozen", but it sounds fantastic here. And "Miles Away" fits quite well between "Frozen" and "Take A Bow".

No they didn't. There's 2 minutes space on disc 2. Had they used edits of Papa, Frozen, Take A Bow and Die Another Say (as they should have) there would be room for 1 more song.

Had they used an edit of Holiday on disc 1 (as they should have), there would be room for the full versions of Like A Virgin and Ray Of Light.

As for Cherish, are you kidding me that you can't tell how bad that cut is? What about Erotica? That is even worse.

I know you are enjoying this project, and that's good for you, but I find it quite hard to believe that you can't notice those things or aren't bothered by them. It's not the same as being upset about the tracklisting, it's just plain unprofessional on Warner's part. And although I won't be having sleepless nights about it I agree with Mattress.

Music, on the other hand, I can't notice any clicks either.

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Guest hard pedro

No, "Hung Up" is the same as the non-megamixed version. The only prior physical release on compact disc was the US promo, so this marks it's commercial debut on the CD format.

The Album Version of Hung Up appears on the UK promo too as the unmixed version!

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