Does Madonna Need A New Manager?

[cosmic_system]

MADONNA used to LEAD the pack.

Now she just FOLLOWS the pack.

[acko]

'Before Madonna *pause* It was 'face and I..okay. Do I have to say anymore?'

[Genevieve Vavance]

beautiful, that mouth

[Kurt420]

The thing is I remember when the latest Madonna video would be amongst the regular "news" of the day. Nowadays no matter how great a video or what artist, they don't get THAT kind of attention anymore. They don't get played nearly as much on MTV...sure there is youtube but personally if I were an artist I wouldn't invest oodles of money into a video to look fabulous when by the time the viewer sees it on youtube it will look like shit anyways. It's premature to say videos are irrelevant, I'm sure they will always be relevant to an extent but they are not EVENTS like they used to be.

This is a woman who came up during MTV's golden era of music video, a time when that was THE way of promotion for an artist.....nowadays they simply don't have that importance anymore....there are so many other options for promo/marketing and it seems Madonna is following that mentality and putting her focus in other areas....namely touring, which is where it seems things are going (as far as most profit for the artist). The videos Madonna has made recently actually do seem more "made for you tube" hence their simplicity. People always like to bring Gaga's Paparazzi video as an example of a great video and that's fine....but what else does Gaga have to focus on really? She's building a career and at this point the "old school" way of doing things is really her only option. She certainly isn't going to be selling out stadiums across the globe any time soon. Madonna has options.

I find it kind of ironic that fans make accusations that she's not ahead of the game when the funny thing is, I think at this very moment she's so ahead of the game that many just don't even realize it because most other artists haven't caught up yet. More and more major artists are making the same type of deals Madonna now has with Live Nation. Madonna and those artists are the leaders in this case so perhaps the managers of some of these other artists need to focus on the performance aspect of things (I know...impossible with a lot of the trash out there) if they want to have longevity and make money too. A blockbuster album in the US is now 3 million copies a couple years ago it was 5 million....we see where this is going. So why do the "same song and dance" when obviously the tide is shifting?

And I have to say in regard to Madonna losing her inspiration or whatever....all of that is subjective. Just as many people love everything about HC/S&S era as hate it. This era was not a "universally panned" era as AL or Erotica (at the time). As has been stated many times her album sales were among the top 5 highest in the world last year with HC so it's not like people weren't buying her records. Again, it's the SAME diehards putting a rotten stench to the roses with their propaganda, simply because THEY don't like what she's doing personally. Anybody outside of the "Madonna fan community" wouldn't know ANYTHING of a "Madonna backlash" right now because it's non existent. She's equally hated and loved in the press as she's always been. I still stand by what I say in that trying to convince yourself that Madonna herself doesn't like her own music because YOU don't like it is GRADE A, 100% LOON behavior.

[GimmeSomeMo]

Same as not facing the fact that among critics and the general/casual fan public aside, HC is considered one of her weakest records. I talked to dozens of people at her show and everyone said the same thing: excited to see her, shame its with such a weak album. Just because YOU (for whatever reason) like it, doesnt make it good or the reaction divided down the middle. Dont stir shit with that HC insanity again, this is a different discusssion.

[cosmic_system]

'Before Madonna *pause* It was 'face and I..okay. Do I have to say anymore?'

[afrolito]

The thing is I remember when the latest Madonna video would be amongst the regular "news" of the day. Nowadays no matter how great a video or what artist, they don't get THAT kind of attention anymore. They don't get played nearly as much on MTV...sure there is youtube but personally if I were an artist I wouldn't invest oodles of money into a video to look fabulous when by the time the viewer sees it on youtube it will look like shit anyways. It's premature to say videos are irrelevant, I'm sure they will always be relevant to an extent but they are not EVENTS like they used to be.

This is a woman who came up during MTV's golden era of music video, a time when that was THE way of promotion for an artist.....nowadays they simply don't have that importance anymore....there are so many other options for promo/marketing and it seems Madonna is following that mentality and putting her focus in other areas....namely touring, which is where it seems things are going (as far as most profit for the artist). The videos Madonna has made recently actually do seem more "made for you tube" hence their simplicity. People always like to bring Gaga's Paparazzi video as an example of a great video and that's fine....but what else does Gaga have to focus on really? She's building a career and at this point the "old school" way of doing things is really her only option. She certainly isn't going to be selling out stadiums across the globe any time soon. Madonna has options.

I find it kind of ironic that fans make accusations that she's not ahead of the game when the funny thing is, I think at this very moment she's so ahead of the game that many just don't even realize it because most other artists haven't caught up yet. More and more major artists are making the same type of deals Madonna now has with Live Nation. Madonna and those artists are the leaders in this case so perhaps the managers of some of these other artists need to focus on the performance aspect of things (I know...impossible with a lot of the trash out there) if they want to have longevity and make money too. A blockbuster album in the US is now 3 million copies a couple years ago it was 5 million....we see where this is going. So why do the "same song and dance" when obviously the tide is shifting?

And I have to say in regard to Madonna losing her inspiration or whatever....all of that is subjective. Just as many people love everything about HC/S&S era as hate it. This era was not a "universally panned" era as AL or Erotica (at the time). As has been stated many times her album sales were among the top 5 highest in the world last year with HC so it's not like people weren't buying her records. Again, it's the SAME diehards putting a rotten stench to the roses with their propaganda, simply because THEY don't like what she's doing personally. Anybody outside of the "Madonna fan community" wouldn't know ANYTHING of a "Madonna backlash" right now because it's non existent. She's equally hated and loved in the press as she's always been. I still stand by what I say in that trying to convince yourself that Madonna herself doesn't like her own music because YOU don't like it is GRADE A, 100% LOON behavior.

And no matter how many loony gaga fans praise the Paparazzi video, it can't cover up what a shit song it is.

[afrolito]

Same as not facing the fact that among critics and the general/casual fan public aside, HC is considered one of her weakest records. I talked to dozens of people at her show and everyone said the same thing: excited to see her, shame its with such a weak album. Just because YOU (for whatever reason) like it, doesnt make it good or the reaction divided down the middle. Dont stir shit with that HC insanity again, this is a different discusssion.

And you happened to run into dozens of people at a Madonna concert, who just happened to hate HC? Really? Were you conducting a random poll?

[Kurt420]

Same as not facing the fact that among critics and the general/casual fan public aside, HC is considered one of her weakest records. I talked to dozens of people at her show and everyone said the same thing: excited to see her, shame its with such a weak album. Just because YOU (for whatever reason) like it, doesnt make it good or the reaction divided down the middle. Dont stir shit with that HC insanity again, this is a different discusssion.

Really it's not a different discussion it all stems around her artistic decisions of the past couple years since HC/S&S. I've talked to dozens outside of her shows who haven't paid attention to Madonna in years and HC was the first and only Madonna album they've ever purchased. The diehards are the only ones with issues with this era....so many issues that they label it a backlash and act as if Madonna doesn't like her own music. How is that NOT loony? Any casuals/general who don't like this era don't bitch about it because they don't care that much, they just ignore it and when she does something they like again they will be back on the bandwagon. That's how it's always been with the casuals. I can't imagine just a casual "every couple of albums" fan like Madonna would actually care enough to Tweet Guy or post here etc.

I understand that because I like it doesn't mean it's good. So if you and your boys like it that means it's good? If Metacritic gives a rating of 5 stars or more does that make it good? If it sells 5 million worldwide vs. 3 million does that automatically bump it up to the "good" category? If Rolling Stone rates it 5 stars would that mean it's brilliant? Good is subjective dear, that's all I'm saying. For as many people that you've talked to that don't like it I've talked to just as many that do. The fact that the whole project wasn't a universal flop shows that it's not quite as hated as you've lead yourself to believe simply because YOU don't care for it as much as some of her other work.

[GimmeSomeMo]

And you happened to run into dozens of people at a Madonna concert, who just happened to hate HC? Really? Were you conducting a random poll?

Actually I was queueing for SEVERAL hours. And yes weirdly enough I happened to bump into many MADONNA fans at a MADONNA concert. SHOCKER I KNOW

[GimmeSomeMo]

Really it's not a different discussion it all stems around her artistic decisions of the past couple years since HC/S&S. I've talked to dozens outside of her shows who haven't paid attention to Madonna in years and HC was the first and only Madonna album they've ever purchased. The diehards are the only ones with issues with this era....so many issues that they label it a backlash and act as if Madonna doesn't like her own music. How is that NOT loony? Any casuals/general who don't like this era don't bitch about it because they don't care that much, they just ignore it and when she does something they like again they will be back on the bandwagon. That's how it's always been with the casuals. I can't imagine just a casual "every couple of albums" fan like Madonna would actually care enough to Tweet Guy or post here etc.

I understand that because I like it doesn't mean it's good. So if you and your boys like it that means it's good? If Metacritic gives a rating of 5 stars or more does that make it good? If it sells 5 million worldwide vs. 3 million does that automatically bump it up to the "good" category? If Rolling Stone rates it 5 stars would that mean it's brilliant? Good is subjective dear, that's all I'm saying. For as many people that you've talked to that don't like it I've talked to just as many that do. The fact that the whole project wasn't a universal flop shows that it's not quite as hated as you've lead yourself to believe simply because YOU don't care for it as much as some of her other work.

I agree that there is no backlash happening. More like a general lack of interest. Also yes, sales have nothing to do with quality. But critical ACCLAIM does. Yes when the critical consensus is not that good, that means something. At the end of the day each person loves what they love and no one can take that away from them. But there are certain objective criteria on which to judge the quality of an album. Or a movie or a book, you get my drift.

[afrolito]

Actually I was queueing for SEVERAL hours. And yes weirdly enough I happened to bump into many MADONNA fans at a MADONNA concert. SHOCKER I KNOW

I wasn't questioning you meeting Madonna fans at a Madonna concert...but of course you knew that. I just find it hard to believe you polled DOZENS of of people who felt the need to share with you their dislike of HC...but whatever. To each his own.

[Phantom Pain]

HC is COADF's American half brother

I love them both

[Zezwer]

HC is COADF's American half brother

I love them both

Actually they are! That's my feeling too. They share something.

I love them aswell... Madonna has yet to make a bad studio album.

But I do find them Madonna's least inspired albums to date though (except for some songs from each of them).

[GimmeSomeMo]

I wasn't questioning you meeting Madonna fans at a Madonna concert...but of course you knew that. I just find it hard to believe you polled DOZENS of of people who felt the need to share with you their dislike of HC...but whatever. To each his own.

Well we were talking about the concert... You know... the one SUPPORTING HC... while Madonna was soundchecking SONGS from HC inside... I really don't find it THAT much of a stretch...

[bliss]

Maybe Patty can teach Madonna how to do that fake Scottish accent you go on about.

Madonna can stick with her fake british accent. Patty had this cute soft Scottish accent

when she played Cathy Lane on her hit show.

[Guest Danny86]

Amazing!

[Guest hot revolver]

I'm sorry but 408 million dollars in one year alone doesn't translate into needing a new manager! But that's just my opinion. And that's coming after an effortless album called Hard Candy.

U need to look at the BIg picture! she may be doing wonderfully when it comes to touring but everything else is lacking!! while hard candy did ok and she had a hit, its really dispoable and forgettable!! she needs another vogue or even a music. if she keeps releasing subpar music she will fade away like the pop stars she out lasted

[SkyHigh76]

U need to look at the BIg picture! she may be doing wonderfully when it comes to touring but everything else is lacking!! while hard candy did ok and she had a hit, its really dispoable and forgettable!! she needs another vogue or even a music. if she keeps releasing subpar music she will fade away like the pop stars she out lasted

I think we all need to understand that the music business ain't what it used to be.Even if Madonna recorded "another vogue or music",what makes you think it will be a big hit? What makes you think radio will play it? Madonna could go into the studio with Patrick Leonard,record "Like A Prayer Part 2",and she would still having trouble getting airplay!

Let's face it,touring is where Madonna will continue to have her greatest success these days.It's where she will make the most impact.CDs don't sell these days,anyway.At least Madonna was smart enough to realize this and focus her attention on touring.

[Glindathegood]

Yes, we all know the music business is about touring now, and it's unlikely she will have big hits and sell as many records as she did in the 80's and 90's. So I have no problem with her focusing on touring.

But because her tours are heavily focuses around her new music, not just playing her older hits like other artists, it is very important that she continues to make great artistic records. I enjoyed Sticky and Sweet, but I would have enjoyed it more if I had liked the songs from Hard Candy more. It's a matter of personal taste, but I think it's one of her weakest albums.

Because she makes her money from touring and a hit is unlikely, then that should free her up to do more artistic innovative music since people will come see her live anyway. So I don't see why she wants to make music that is tied to the pop trends of the day like Timbaland, since she's not that likely to have a hit anyway. Why not experiment with new sounds, be it rock, country, whatever since she relies on touring, not hits for her livliehood.

[markm]

U need to look at the BIg picture! she may be doing wonderfully when it comes to touring but everything else is lacking!! while hard candy did ok and she had a hit, its really dispoable and forgettable!! she needs another vogue or even a music. if she keeps releasing subpar music she will fade away like the pop stars she out lasted

Thank you! HC was stale and about 3 years too late. And lets be honest 4mins was only a massive hit because of Justin Timberlake.

She can only go so far with the touring.

[Glindathegood]

Thank you! HC was stale and about 3 years too late. And lets be honest 4mins was only a massive hit because of Justin Timberlake.

She can only go so far with the touring.

I think she can do fine with just the touring. But as I said because her tours are heavily based around her new music, she has to come out with some more exciting new music to keep people interested in seeing her live. A lot of artists who tour all the time don't release new music or release crappy music. But their tours are based around the old material. Since she bases her tours around the current album, the album has to be of high quality and innovative.

[Kurt420]

Yes, we all know the music business is about touring now, and it's unlikely she will have big hits and sell as many records as she did in the 80's and 90's. So I have no problem with her focusing on touring.

But because her tours are heavily focuses around her new music, not just playing her older hits like other artists, it is very important that she continues to make great artistic records. I enjoyed Sticky and Sweet, but I would have enjoyed it more if I had liked the songs from Hard Candy more. It's a matter of personal taste, but I think it's one of her weakest albums.

Because she makes her money from touring and a hit is unlikely, then that should free her up to do more artistic innovative music since people will come see her live anyway. So I don't see why she wants to make music that is tied to the pop trends of the day like Timbaland, since she's not that likely to have a hit anyway. Why not experiment with new sounds, be it rock, country, whatever since she relies on touring, not hits for her livliehood.

But hasn't Madonna always made music tied to current pop trends? Before Madonna decided to touch it, electronica was deemed the "next big thing" in the mid 90's, lo and behold what do we get in 1998? The very "electronica" influenced ROL. The freshness of the late 80's/early 90's "house music" sound had expired by the time Madonna dropped Erotica in '92....she had even done it WAY better herself not long before that with Vogue. Anyways...there are a 101 examples that can be used. Point is though, most of the time (Erotica being the exception I suppose...although she hadn't done a FULL album with those sounds...JML and Rescue Me represented that "sound" best anyways IMO...coulda just left it there) Madonna does sounds that are new FOR HER. With the domination of Hip-Hop/R&B in popular music/pop culture this decade, Madonna dipping her toes in that world was a long time coming IMO. Interstingly she chose to work with the best and most prominent currently of the field....just like she did when she dabbled within the genre 15 years prior. I also found it interesting that she chose to work with Timbo after the FS/LS album because to me that album was a turning point in HIS sound evolution. Prior to that he seemed to work with artists who were strictly Hip-Hop/R&B artists. It seems from about '06 on he seemed to get a little more "poppy" in his sound....even listening to Shock Value vs. his early solo albums with Magoo are evidence of this. The more recent day Timbo sound vs. his older stuff seems more compatible to Madonna's omnipresent "pop" sensibility so their collaboration at the time it happened seemed pretty fitting IMO.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

PLese. Madonna need the new manger for The Baby Jesus. Plese. I beg.

[Kurt420]

Thank you! HC was stale and about 3 years too late. And lets be honest 4mins was only a massive hit because of Justin Timberlake.

She can only go so far with the touring.

How was HC 3 years too late? FS/LS and Loose were not even 2 years old when HC was released and aren't those the main ones she "ripped off"? 4M was a collaboration in success as much as it was a collaboration in the studio. All the ingredients of that song made it the smash it was. Without Justin's appearance US radio wouldn't have been AS friendly, but without Madonna being in the song I feel it wouldn't have been the massive success it was in other parts of the world.

You're so dismissive of her achievements and come up with excuses because YOU don't like her direction personally. I just find it a bit odd. I would say she can only go so far with focusing on lavish videos and doing tons of album promo. What's the point these days truly? We know she's not going to do the same sound over and over so that's a moot point, she won't be working with Timbo forever and always now. People still see it as she's touring to support her album. With HC/S&S it has been treated moreso than any other time before like new music is supporting the tour. I suspect that is the future and what sense would it make to do it any other way in this climate?

[Guest Danny86]

Kurt, don't you know Madonna is supposed to send spies to music studios, learn about the next best thing and rush record a new album based on that just so fans can say she stays ahead of the pack? Unfortunately Madonna was too lazy to do that and went ahead with the Confessions Tour, allowing Nelly and Justin release Timbaland music before her. As a punishment, she should have taken a break till 2010 to make sure she finds something that has not been done before her, not to embarrass her fans, who prefer Madonna taking long breaks than selling millions of concert tickets anyway.

I wonder when people are going to realize that Live Nation did not pay Madonna $125 million to record 3 AL's in the next decade. I also wonder how many are going to jump ship when Madonna records another uptempo album and conceives another high energy tour? Not sure if it's gonna be attributed to her "not caring anymore" or "being surrounded by yes men" though?

[Glindathegood]

I can see the Hard Candy defenders are out in force today. I honestly cannot understand how someone can say HC is on the same artistic level as LAP, ROL and Confessions, It just isn't. Maybe they are so worked up because they are trying to convince themselves it's good because they feel they must like everything Madonna does. I tried to make myself like HC since I like every other album she's done, but I had to give it up, because with the exception of a few songs, it's is just bad and boring.

I have no problem with her doing uptempo music. But make it good uptempo music like stuff on ROL and Confessions. Not bad boring uptempo music like HC.

And why does she have to do another uptempo tour? We just saw one. If her tours are going to keep people interested, she can't just do the same thing over and over again.

In the latest Rolling stone, they praised You Must Love Me. They said she should drop all the props and dancers more often and focus on the music. If she did a more stripped down tour, people would still come. In fact, people would be more interested because it would be different and fresh, not the same old, same old.

[Guest Danny86]

Sorry Glinda dearest, there's no convincing myself and I certainly don't love everything she does. It's just about music that I like and HC gets me the same way the other albums you listed do as well.

About good or bad uptempo music, that's all about taste. Also, ROL is not uptempo for the most part (though it's remembered as such, because of the title track).

She will not be cutting down show elements on tours and as long as she keeps up, she will let everyone know she still has the energy above 50. Her shows will always have a "You Must Love Me" or a "Paradise" but I can't see her making a show based on those performances. I also think it's rich to call her tours as "same old", but whatever. I don't think people will lose interest if the next tour has the same pace as S&ST, but I can see many getting disappointed if she "slows it down".

[Kurt420]

I can see the Hard Candy defenders are out in force today. I honestly cannot understand how someone can say HC is on the same artistic level as LAP, ROL and Confessions, It just isn't. Maybe they are so worked up because they are trying to convince themselves it's good because they feel they must like everything Madonna does. I tried to make myself like HC since I like every other album she's done, but I had to give it up, because with the exception of a few songs, it's is just bad and boring.

I have no problem with her doing uptempo music. But make it good uptempo music like stuff on ROL and Confessions. Not bad boring uptempo music like HC.

And why does she have to do another uptempo tour? We just saw one. If her tours are going to keep people interested, she can't just do the same thing over and over again.

In the latest Rolling stone, they praised You Must Love Me. They said she should drop all the props and dancers more often and focus on the music. If she did a more stripped down tour, people would still come. In fact, people would be more interested because it would be different and fresh, not the same old, same old.

You are absolutely right that HC is nowhere near as artistically brilliant as LAP or ROL...although COADF is probably my favorite record by her I wouldn't even put in the LAP/ROL category because it's just not that brilliant, I just personally enjoy listening to it more. It's always about "she needs another LAP or ROL". LAP and ROL are 2 albums out of what.....12 or 13?? They aren't the rule but the exception, she may NEVER do anything as brilliant as those albums again. So those who are hating everything and just waiting for that lightning to strike again may be disappointed.

Do you mean she needs to do more Euro/electro type uptempo music and not American Hip-Pop/R&B sounding stuff? That sounds like personal preference to me and she has ALREADY went back to the Euro type stuff with Celebration so obviously she's not gonna be "M-Dolla" forever. Why do fans act that way? Like she's never going to change her sound again or something....it's been ONE ALBUM people. Get a grip. Any sound/look Madonna has ever had has been temporary. Why will this be an exception?

I'm sorry I don't care what Rolling Stone says, only diehard loons like myself would care to see a low energy Madonna show. That's like going to a Whitney Houston show to watch her lip sync. WTF? I would consider both CT and S&S as uptempo tours but completely different at the same time. Are you suggesting a "Madonna Unplugged" type of thing? Minimal props, subdued costumes etc? If so....when has Madonna ever done a show like that? Even with the simplicity of Virgin it was still high energy and typical trashy Madonna. DWT is the closest she's come to going "left field" with her shows and although I find it BRILLIANT a lot of people were not happy with that at the time. I remember leaving both shows I went to and people were PISSED that she sang virtually NOTHING anybody but a diehard would know.

One more thing. Why does anybody who likes the HC labeled as someone who has forced themselves to like it? Maybe you force yourself to NOT like it because you already have a bias against the people she worked with/genre of music it is yourself? It can go both ways.

OR

It could just be I like what I like and you like what you like!

[Glindathegood]

You can still do an uptempo tour with a different type of music. Why does it have to be just predictable dance things? You can move around and dance to all kinds of music from more pop things to rock songs.

Madonna has always said people shouldn't think in a limited way and should think outside the box. What happened to that? She says she likes to try new things and step outside of her comfort zone. Why can't she apply that to her tours?

But now you are telling me she can only do dance music with aerobic style choreography. What happened to the tour elements of singing, presenting great songs and playing instruments? That is just as important as choreography, dancers and video screens. I was at Sticky and Sweet and the most well received songs were Miles Away and You Must Love me which had none of the "tour elements" that you are going on about.