Pabl0114 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Same as not facing the fact that among critics and the general/casual fan public aside, HC is considered one of her weakest records. I talked to dozens of people at her show and everyone said the same thing: excited to see her, shame its with such a weak album. Just because YOU (for whatever reason) like it, doesnt make it good or the reaction divided down the middle. Dont stir shit with that HC insanity again, this is a different discusssion. It's all subjective cuz the people that I have spoken to loved the album. These are some non fans and former fans and I was surprised to find how many people really enjoyed it. I just don"t know why as fans we tend to concentrate on all the negative. The fact of the matter is this is the most accessible and catchy that M has been in years and I just don't think there is anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 But now you are telling me she can only do dance music with aerobic style choreography. What happened to the tour elements of singing, presenting great songs and playing instruments? That is just as important as choreography, dancers and video screens. I was at Sticky and Sweet and the most well received songs were Miles Away and You Must Love me which had none of the "tour elements" that you are going on about. But she's not all about aerobic choreography, that doesn't even fit most of the performances of the current tour. She tried out several different choreographies. And it's not like her past few tours are THAT different, I mean DWT had something like "Beautiful Stranger" or CT had "Get Together" & "Lucky Star" that might be simpler than anything on S&ST and far from the "artistic" moments of those tours. I know those 2 songs got a great reaction but at the shows I've been to, the last segment got the biggest reaction which is pure dance. I certainly don't think LAP would have got the same reaction if it was the slow album version. ROL has been bashed for 2 years since it's always done on a guitar now, yet it gets the biggest response and is expected to be performed because most people go to see her for those stuff and not sitting down for 2 hours and show off her underrated voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 You can still do an uptempo tour with a different type of music. Why does it have to be just predictable dance things? You can move around and dance to all kinds of music from more pop things to rock songs. Madonna has always said people shouldn't think in a limited way and should think outside the box. What happened to that? She says she likes to try new things and step outside of her comfort zone. Why can't she apply that to her tours? But now you are telling me she can only do dance music with aerobic style choreography. What happened to the tour elements of singing, presenting great songs and playing instruments? That is just as important as choreography, dancers and video screens. I was at Sticky and Sweet and the most well received songs were Miles Away and You Must Love me which had none of the "tour elements" that you are going on about. I don't mean every tour has to be S&S like with aerobic style choreography. But like Danny said, a tour that's based around a YMLM or MA would be a terrible idea. That's not Madonna. NO Madonna show has ever really been low energy. The songs you mentioned were probably so well received because they were 2 of the few "slow moments" of a show that was high energy. They stood out amongst the other songs. Not to mention in MA she does the whole clap along thing and DEMANDS people particpate. Now do a show full of YMLM, Paradises and Miles Aways and throw Vogue and Into The Groove in the middle of it with some high energy/aerobic style choreography and see what kind of reception those get in comparison to the other songs. Essentially I agree with what you are saying. I don't think any of us want her to repeat herself over and over but let's not act like Madonna is something she's not. Her tours have always been more about the SHOW aspect of things. I would like to see her incorporate some of her more early classical dance training into her work perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I'm not saying she should do a low energy show with nothing but ballads and acoustic songs. That would be boring no matter who the artist is. Every concert needs to have a mix of uptempo and slow songs. I guess I just want a different type of uptempo music and dancing. I like what you said about using her classical dance training. I would like to see some choreography drawing on modern dance as well. Recently, her choreography has just been the same as other pop stars. I want something that stands out and makes me go Wow! For me, Madonna has not been just about the show aspect. For me, she is the perfect combination of the show aspect and the musical aspect. I don't want her to eliminate the show aspect. I just want her to beef up the musical aspect. On Sticky and Sweet, it seemed almost all show to me. The musical aspect I loved in the past was somewhat lost. I don't want her to become like Britney who is all show with no musical substance. Madonna to me has always been the perfect combination of style and substance. In the last couple of years, she has been too much about the style. I don't want her to lose the style, but just bring back some of the substance too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 But she's not all about aerobic choreography, that doesn't even fit most of the performances of the current tour. She tried out several different choreographies. And it's not like her past few tours are THAT different, I mean DWT had something like "Beautiful Stranger" or CT had "Get Together" & "Lucky Star" that might be simpler than anything on S&ST and far from the "artistic" moments of those tours. I know those 2 songs got a great reaction but at the shows I've been to, the last segment got the biggest reaction which is pure dance. I certainly don't think LAP would have got the same reaction if it was the slow album version. ROL has been bashed for 2 years since it's always done on a guitar now, yet it gets the biggest response and is expected to be performed because most people go to see her for those stuff and not sitting down for 2 hours and show off her underrated voice. Danny speaks the truth guys! Always remember that!! People go to Madonna shows for the extravagance of it all, that's how she's earned the repuatation she has as a live performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabl0114 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Kurt and danny thank you for being the voice of reason for those of us who enjoyed HC. Most fans here must work for Fox news uninformed(HC is a flop cuz it didn't sell well in US) and bias(I hate HC and the tims!!!). oh and I just nonticed kurt420 as in " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Danny speaks the truth guys! Always remember that!! People go to Madonna shows for the extravagance of it all, that's how she's earned the repuatation she has as a live performer. No, it's the combination of the extravagant show and the music. You just said people didn't like DWT because they hated the setlist. You have to have a show aspect and also great music. There are only so many extravagant things you can come up with. Eventually you end up doing the same things. Madonna's shows can't get bigger, the only way she can change and grow is to go simpler. I believe in Madonna. I think she can pull off a different kind of show. I think you might be surprised how much people would love it. I'm not saying she should just stand there and sing. Just put a little more focus on the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Kurt and danny thank you for being the voice of reason for those of us who enjoyed HC. Most fans here must work for Fox news uninformed(HC is a flop cuz it didn't sell well in US) and bias(I hate HC and the tims!!!). oh and I just nonticed kurt420 as in " So if someone doesn't like HC they work for Fox News. I really had no opinion of Timbaland one way or the other. When everyone here was bashing Madonna for working with him, I said let's wait and hear the album. I thought it might be good since I believe in Madonna and have liked everyone of her other albums. But somehow the Madonna I loved just got erased by Timbaland. I have no bias against him since really I didn't know much about him. But I know what I hear and what I like and HC wasn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I'm not saying she should do a low energy show with nothing but ballads and acoustic songs. That would be boring no matter who the artist is. Every concert needs to have a mix of uptempo and slow songs. I guess I just want a different type of uptempo music and dancing. I like what you said about using her classical dance training. I would like to see some choreography drawing on modern dance as well. Recently, her choreography has just been the same as other pop stars. I want something that stands out and makes me go Wow! For me, Madonna has not been just about the show aspect. For me, she is the perfect combination of the show aspect and the musical aspect. I don't want her to eliminate the show aspect. I just want her to beef up the musical aspect. On Sticky and Sweet, it seemed almost all show to me. The musical aspect I loved in the past was somewhat lost. I don't want her to become like Britney who is all show with no musical substance. Madonna to me has always been the perfect combination of style and substance. In the last couple of years, she has been too much about the style. I don't want her to lose the style, but just bring back some of the substance too. I gotcha! That's what is great about Madonna though. It's almost guaranteed that the next time you see her it will be a completely different vibe than the time before, but just as awesome. I can agree that S&S is very much a show that focuses on the style aspect of things (although was it not great to have a REAL band this time?? lol) but I don't think that means that all her tours from now on will be like that. The good thing about Madonna vs. someone like Britney is that IMO music does run through her veins like any great artist BUT she's equally interested in the show aspect. I guess it's inevitable for one to overshadow the other at times on certain tours. For the HC songs I think S&S worked perfectly. Just like for the ROL/Music songs the whole feel of the DWT was perfection IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Essentially I agree with what you are saying. I don't think any of us want her to repeat herself over and over but let's not act like Madonna is something she's not. Her tours have always been more about the SHOW aspect of things. I would like to see her incorporate some of her more early classical dance training into her work perhaps. I still say the S&ST is the LEAST deserving of getting the "repeats herself" title for the simple fact that she shows the energy and keeps up with the dancers. That didn't happen for a LONG time and I'm not saying the next tour should/would be the same, but I think Madonna would want to keep with that attitude and I wouldn't think of that as repeating herself. I think it's just scratching the surface when people complain 2 songs come from Live Earth and the end of SNM resembles LIWB. And at the same time, they complain why no proper video intro again. It's also weird to wish Madonna would chance the formula, what else she could do than 4-5 segments on every show? If it was more than that, it would be a mess, if it was less, people would complain she stays in a costume for too long and the show just drags on. And I just remembered that dozens of RIT fan reports said "Deeper And Deeper" was probably the least appreciated part of the show and many in the crowd considered it boring, even some of her fans called it as a bathroom break. I haven't seen that show live, but I always liked that performance since it was new for her, but I would not want her to do that on every tour like Kylie always does. Plus I always thought it was weird that almost all RIT segments had a ballad which was more like breaking the flow than "changing it up"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Kurt and danny thank you for being the voice of reason for those of us who enjoyed HC. Most fans here must work for Fox news uninformed(HC is a flop cuz it didn't sell well in US) and bias(I hate HC and the tims!!!). oh and I just nonticed kurt420 as in " Or as in lol But yeah, it was always going to be risky for Madonna pissing off her diehards by working with those guys. Especially since IMO her diehard fanbase has changed a bit in the years since ROL. I truly think it's 50/50 though, like you I've known many people to like HC that normally wouldn't have given anything by Madonna a chance in hell. I noticed different types of people than the usuals who like ROL, Music and COADF that enjoyed this album. Maybe that's why it's so hard for me to come here and read about backlashes and hating on the music so much because I can honestly say outside of this forum I know of one diehard fan I know personally that would share the "haters" opinion of this album and everytime he talks about it he never really says he doesn't like the music, in fact quite the opposite, he just says he doesn't like that it sounds like what he hears on the radio right now. I find that interesting because that's generally the impression I get from a lot of the people that talk about it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabl0114 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 So if someone doesn't like HC they work for Fox News. I really had no opinion of Timbaland one way or the other. When everyone here was bashing Madonna for working with him, I said let's wait and hear the album. I thought it might be good since I believe in Madonna and have liked everyone of her other albums. But somehow the Madonna I loved just got erased by Timbaland. I have no bias against him since really I didn't know much about him. But I know what I hear and what I like and HC wasn't it! It wasn't about you in particular. There has been HC hate from the jump. The truth of the matter is you like what you like but most of the points used to argue the HC hate seem so uninformed and bias, like much of fox news(it obviously wasn't meat literally). I can see someone saying: "HC wasn't my thing but I see what she was trying to do, I just didn't enjoy it. moving on" is more like "HC sucked she should have done this or that" or "she need to shit another ROL". whatever no matter what things are not what they used to be ROL and LAP are in the past. I for one didn't really enjoy ROL or COADF at first listen, but M always takes you on a journey you just have to be willing to go on it. Someone else could argue that the Madonna they loved got erased by Mirwais on M and stuart on COADF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabl0114 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Or as in lol But yeah, it was always going to be risky for Madonna pissing off her diehards by working with those guys. Especially since IMO her diehard fanbase has changed a bit in the years since ROL. I truly think it's 50/50 though, like you I've known many people to like HC that normally wouldn't have given anything by Madonna a chance in hell. I noticed different types of people than the usuals who like ROL, Music and COADF that enjoyed this album. Maybe that's why it's so hard for me to come here and read about backlashes and hating on the music so much because I can honestly say outside of this forum I know of one diehard fan I know personally that would share the "haters" opinion of this album and everytime he talks about it he never really says he doesn't like the music, in fact quite the opposite, he just says he doesn't like that it sounds like what he hears on the radio right now. I find that interesting because that's generally the impression I get from a lot of the people that talk about it here. yeah that's what I meant LOL. maybe That's why enjoyed HC so much. IT sounds real good on the green cloud. I was shocked when I found all that HC love around me. Not to make it racial cuz really music should have no color or age, but i do live in atlanta where we have a large black gay population, they seem to have really connected to the album and it's sound. At my job people loved it. 4m, BGO and CS got play at the black gay clubs. I went to a cookout last summer and they had the whole HC album playing. SNM came on at a restaurant the whole table of seven said how much they loved the entire album. None of that she's too old or that shit sounds 3yrs old. So to hear the fans be so negative is really weird. Is one thing to say you don't enjoy it, but to be so hateful is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 yeah that's what I meant LOL. maybe That's why enjoyed HC so much. IT sounds real good on the green cloud. I was shocked when I found all that HC love around me. Not to make it racial cuz really music should have no color or age, but i do live in atlanta where we have a large black gay population, they seem to have really connected to the album and it's sound. At my job people loved it. 4m, BGO and CS got play at the black gay clubs. I went to a cookout last summer and they had the whole HC album playing. SNM came on at a restaurant the whole table of seven said how much they loved the entire album. None of that she's too old or that shit sounds 3yrs old. So to hear the fans be so negative is really weird. Is one thing to say you don't enjoy it, but to be so hateful is beyond me. I didn't want to make it racial sounding either so I didn't say it in my post, but I was referencing my black gay friends. HC was the first time many of those friends told ME how hot they thought the new Madonna album was instead vice versa like usual...lol. Oddly probably the most hated song on the album here, Spanish Lesson, seems to be a favorite amongst my friends. I don't get the extreme hate this album gets thrown at it either, some of it just seems over the top. I thought it was cool to see for myself a completely different group of my friends get into a NEW Madonna album. Everybody loves her 80's music usually but it's been a while since anybody besides my white gay male friends have gotten into a NEW Madonna album. Then I come here and read about how Madonna needs to hang her panties up, take YEARS off and think about WTF she's doing because everybody hates her and she's lost it as an artist....it's a backlash....we just like the album because it's Madonna and were loons. Meanwhile I'm for the first time ever really witnessing new people get into new Madonna music. Again...I hate saying all this black and white stuff but I just can't find a way to put it more eloquently at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeMo Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Jesus Christ the tour is over, now the TWO new songs are out, HC is dead and buried finally. LET IT FUCKING GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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