MaddysMuff Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Maybe next she'll do a guitar version of Angel. As ridiculous as a rock version of Borderline sounded and I hated the idea, I forgot about Drop Nineteens cover of Angel. Which is the best Madonna cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I understand the Stephen Bray thing, same for not mentioning Shep (he demanded to be credited for BS tracks), but was there anything on the supposed beef with Reggie Lucas or Jellybean? Or simply she just moved on and forgot they existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddysMuff Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 How could she forget about Jellybean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Was Mark Kamins mentioned? At least Dan Gilroy was.. probably why he made up that collage of old recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't understand why mid-tempos and ballads can't be celebrated, or considered cause for celebration. I think the 'big' production of "You'll See," and the conspicious power house vocals she displays on it, is every bit as exciting as "Music" or "Hung Up." Unfortunately, so many of her fans want her music to be endlessly hyper-tempo'd, and like to discount those middle 90s sing-song years. And I think that attitude has gotten back to Madonna, herself, to point where she over-compensates after doing something that wasn't so danceable. Personally I've always like button-down, serious, ballad-y Madonna equally as much as I do her upbeat side. This is a great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_system Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't understand why mid-tempos and ballads can't be celebrated, or considered cause for celebration. I think the 'big' production of "You'll See," and the conspicious power house vocals she displays on it, is every bit as exciting as "Music" or "Hung Up." Unfortunately, so many of her fans want her music to be endlessly hyper-tempo'd, and like to discount those middle 90s sing-song years. And I think that attitude has gotten back to Madonna, herself, to point where she over-compensates after doing something that wasn't so danceable. Personally I've always like button-down, serious, ballad-y Madonna equally as much as I do her upbeat side. I think I'm in love with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedFed Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I hope that in two years time a GREATEST REMIX HITS COLLECTION will be released with a DVD VIDEO REMIXES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayGuy Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 She didn't mention Mark Kamins (that I remember). I think the only 80s producers she mentioned were Nile Rodgers and Patrick Leonard- and then, mentioned Babyface (even though just two of their tracks ended up on a Madonna album). Why mention him, because TAB spent 7 weeks atop the Hot 100? Why not mention Prince, who did a duet with her and played guitar on a couple LAP tracks? (didn't he also play on that extended version of LAP, with the lengthy guitar bit at the end?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 She didn't mention Mark Kamins (that I remember). I think the only 80s producers she mentioned were Nile Rodgers and Patrick Leonard- and then, mentioned Babyface (even though just two of their tracks ended up on a Madonna album). Why mention him, because TAB spent 7 weeks atop the Hot 100? Why not mention Prince, who did a duet with her and played guitar on a couple LAP tracks? (didn't he also play on that extended version of LAP, with the lengthy guitar bit at the end?) Why not mention me who bought all her albums, went 2 all her shows & jacked off 2 her Girlie Show VHS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yummy Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I Want You is on the DVD!!!!!!!!!!! I'm happy. Makes up for the loss of American Life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_On_Her Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think the falling out between Madonna and Stephen Bray had more to do with him being pissed at Madonna for getting Shep Pettibone to remix Express Yourself when it was released. Stephen apparently vowed never to work with Madonna again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 What's that last bit all about? Seems a bit morbid. Looks like a Jacko reference. I agree that the statement strikes me as a bit odd -- you're right, it is morbid. But yeah, in the posthumous phase for Jackson, I think they're trying to tap into the "appreciate our few musical icons" thought. Though -- this is a bit of a stretch -- it kind of reminds me of how Madonna has felt about "Lifetime Achievement Awards" and such. You know how she is about the, "I'm not dead yet -- I'm not retired -- I'm still creating and doing," etc. Maybe she was a little insistent that it not be treated like "period. end of chapter, end of book. Madonna's had her day and we're putting the bookend on her career." It's a (slightly clumsy) way of saying (reminding? as if it's necessary?) that she's still alive and kicking, so we're celebrating. I wonder what pushed him to do it though? It seems like such an odd thing to do, considering their personal and working relationship; I mean it's not like he was Otto, he had a hand in some of the best pop songs ever. I am glad he did it though, I LOVE Pre-Madonna. I'm always surprised that the a fair few of her producers (bar maybe Stuart) have really taken full advantage of working with Madonna; what are Shep, Stephen, Mark Kamins, Jellybean, even Pat up to these days. I don't know if it has anything to do with anything -- but I think someone said in another thread that Stephen Bray was disgruntled about the handling of Express Yourself? (And perhaps that extends, too, to "Into the Groove"? I'm not sure.) That Shep Pettibone did his thing with her songs to make the dance remixes and he wasn't pleased with that. (Someone said Pat was likewise put off by that happening with "Like a Prayer.") So maybe it was his way of saying, "If you think you can do whatever you want with our music and have the final word, well -- two can play at that game. I'm releasing these demos -- and variations of them." It's a bit childish, but maybe that played in a bit. (Or maybe it was just $$$.) Speaking of Bray and EY -- do I recall correctly that someone stated even the album version didn't have Bray and Madonna seeing eye-to-eye? That she won out even in the production of that version, and Bray's original treatment is still unreleased? Or am I misunderstanding what I read? As for what Pat is up to these days -- he and Madonna worked on demos together and wrote stuff for the defunct film/musical project. And he provided scoring/composing for the "I Am Because We Are" documentary. That's the last I've heard, but that's still pretty recent. As for the others, I know nothing. Also -- was it Jim who asked about Babyface? I know only several of their collabs ended up on Bedtime Story, but I believe she wrote with him again in prep for Ray of Light (though nothing eventuated and she moved in another direction). Perhaps she just feels there was more there than just two songs. Of course, this does NOT explain the very large oversights. (Heck, she didn't thank Guy Ritchie that night, either... But, oh ... right, erm... yeah. That was awkward.) What about Nellee Hooper and Dallas Austin? I forget if she mentioned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ^ Haha! Sorry, Mad_on_Her ... I was writing up my (too wordy) reply as you posted, I guess. Glad to know someone else suspects similarly, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayGuy Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yeah, I recall her talking about doing stuff with Babyface that didn't make the ROL album. She didn't mention Hooper or Dallas Austin in her speech, that I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Speaking of Bray and EY -- do I recall correctly that someone stated even the album version didn't have Bray and Madonna seeing eye-to-eye? That she won out even in the production of that version, and Bray's original treatment is still unreleased? Or am I misunderstanding what I read? Yes, that's the rumor, the unreleased version is the one he preferred. I guess after Madonna only using 2 songs by him on LAP (there are at least 2 outtakes), one of them in a different version, then Shep remixing both songs was indeed too much for him. But probably he lives on the royalties of Madonna songs anyway, because after LAP he worked a bit with Kylie and then nothing notable, for almost 20 years now... I think Madonna also had issues with Nellee Hooper, there was that letter she wrote to Patrick Leonard (that is authentic, right?) where she talks about Nellee's big ego and that she wouldn't use him for ROL because of that. It's mean, but maybe Madonna intentionally chose to mention a select few of her producers in the speech, because critics always bash her for sucking their blood out and throwing them away, maybe she wanted to give the impression that the list is not that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernatural Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think Steven Bray's sound was just sorta dated by 1990 and Madonna moved on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest groovyguy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Madonna - Hall of Fame (pt. 3) Justin's Intro b4 Madonna comes out at 2:30 (pt.4) (pt. 5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes, that's the rumor, the unreleased version is the one he preferred. I guess after Madonna only using 2 songs by him on LAP (there are at least 2 outtakes), one of them in a different version, then Shep remixing both songs was indeed too much for him. But probably he lives on the royalties of Madonna songs anyway, because after LAP he worked a bit with Kylie and then nothing notable, for almost 20 years now... Thanks, Danny, as always -- very informative. You're probably right about his Madonna royalties -- I was musing about that to myself, too. I didn't know he worked with Kylie at all... I think Madonna also had issues with Nellee Hooper, there was that letter she wrote to Patrick Leonard (that is authentic, right?) where she talks about Nellee's big ego and that she wouldn't use him for ROL because of that. This is what I have heard -- I do not know if I can verify or authenticate anything, though! (I'm such a non-authority! haha!) I heard she had a meeting with Nellee Hooper in a hotel in NYC (or maybe it was LA)... I can't remember for sure, but it was much more recent than pre-ROL. This was that time she was photographed coming out of a hotel with "CLOUD" written on her hand in marker. (Not sure if it was in reference to Cloud the dancer, or if it was a reference to the Fischerspooner song which Mirwais produced? So I'm not sure if this was before COADF or what.) Anyway, I had heard Nellee supposedly wanted writing credits on some track or tracks that Madonna and Pat did together. Looking at the RoL writing credits, most of them are "Madonna and William Orbit" "Madonna and Patrick Leonard" and "Madonna and Rick Nowels" -- now there's a couple with extra writers, but that's like "Ray of Light" (for the "Sepheryn" composers) and "Candy Perfume Girl" and "DW/SFL" -- they're exceptions. Even though there's more production credits (Marius DeVries, WO, Pat Leonard) -- those producers don't always get writing credit. So maybe the Nellee Hooper rumor holds water after all. (I went looking at the credits thinking that might DISprove that rumor, actually... Was surpised by that.) I love a lot of Nellee's work with other people. His work with Madonna isn't bad, of course, but his stuff with Gwen, U2, and even Bjork has a sharper edge to it than much of what he did with M, which is subtler and more languid. Beautiful, but I wouldn't mind hearing something with a little more bit on another outing... So, I wouldn't mind seeing her re-team with Nellee, though that would probably never happen, if the story's to be believed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 That's right, Bray considers the demo version of Express Yourself to be definitive. And supposedly she clashed with him and Pat over the sound of Like A Prayer and wanted the songs to be more dancey. Hence the originals of LAP and EY being banished. And I remember reading the letter Madonna sent to Pat Leonard where she blasted Nellee Hooper cause he said the songs she had came up with needed so much work that he would need a writers credit on them. So perhaps the demo of, say, No Substitute For Love is Madonna's original composition of what she came up with herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Looking at the RoL writing credits, most of them are "Madonna and William Orbit" "Madonna and Patrick Leonard" and "Madonna and Rick Nowels" -- now there's a couple with extra writers, but that's like "Ray of Light" (for the "Sepheryn" composers) and "Candy Perfume Girl" and "DW/SFL" -- they're exceptions. Even though there's more production credits (Marius DeVries, WO, Pat Leonard) -- those producers don't always get writing credit. So maybe the Nellee Hooper rumor holds water after all. (I went looking at the credits thinking that might DISprove that rumor, actually... Was surpised by that.) Now that you mention it, it's indeed weird how the producer is not credited as a writer on half of the album. Reportedly the final version of "Skin" was a major departure from the original version and supposedly Patrick Leonard hated it, but Orbit did not do enough to be a co-writer? I understand that Mirwais would not be needed to be credited for writing "Nothing Fails" or "X-Static" process because he basically just played the guitar there and those songs would sound the same without him, but I can't really use the same argument for Orbit and the songs "Skin" or "The Power Of Good-Bye"... On another subject, in this early MTV interview, Madonna talks about having 2 videos, and about "Borderline" being a hit on MTV. Since "Lucky Star" was released on MTV after, would the other video be "Burning Up"? If so, not hard to see why "Everybody" video is still not acknowledged 25 years later: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonski43 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 She probably doesn't count Everybody as a proper video as it was more just a performance vid put together for $5000 after the single started to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightycomfort Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I emailed cdwow today and told them the tracklist they had is wrong and different to her official site and press release. They mailed back and said it wasn't . So I said I'm looking forward to their version with American life. Deeper and deeper and rain on and they thanked me for my kind comments. Didn't get the sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Topaz Scorpio Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Now that you mention it, it's indeed weird how the producer is not credited as a writer on half of the album. Reportedly the final version of "Skin" was a major departure from the original version and supposedly Patrick Leonard hated it, but Orbit did not do enough to be a co-writer? I understand that Mirwais would not be needed to be credited for writing "Nothing Fails" or "X-Static" process because he basically just played the guitar there and those songs would sound the same without him, but I can't really use the same argument for Orbit and the songs "Skin" or "The Power Of Good-Bye"... On another subject, in this early MTV interview, Madonna talks about having 2 videos, and about "Borderline" being a hit on MTV. Since "Lucky Star" was released on MTV after, would the other video be "Burning Up"? If so, not hard to see why "Everybody" video is still not acknowledged 25 years later: Is that John Norris interviewing her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ^I guess so, sounds like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 slow OR fast , Madonna songs are great , nothing corny about them I didn't realize I was supposed to coo and clasp my hands whenever I hear You'll See and Take A Bow simply because Madonna sings them. My bad. In all seriousness though, I love a lot of Madonna ballads, but the slow shit she did on Bedtime Stories, Evita, and Something To Remember just about puts me to sleep. That whole era was Madonna at her least creative in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezwer Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I didn't realize I was supposed to coo and clasp my hands whenever I hear You'll See and Take A Bow simply because Madonna sings them. My bad. In all seriousness though, I love a lot of Madonna ballads, but the slow shit she did on Bedtime Stories, Evita, and Something To Remember just about puts me to sleep. That whole era was Madonna at her least creative in my opinion. Bedtime Stories is her best, or atleast one of her best albums! I love my Madonna vulnerable and sensitive and i'd choose that "slow shit" anyday over those fluffy dance songs she stuck to lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos8 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Bedtime Stories is her best, or atleast one of her best albums! I love my Madonna vulnerable and sensitive and i'd choose that "slow shit" anyday over those fluffy dance songs she stuck to lately... I totally agree with you Zezwer,i think Secret is one of her best songs ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Bedtime Stories is her best, or atleast one of her best albums! I love my Madonna vulnerable and sensitive and i'd choose that "slow shit" anyday over those fluffy dance songs she stuck to lately... Wait let's not get crazy here. I like Bedtime Stories. Well, half of it. I just hate the adult contemporary crap like Take A Bow, Don't Stop, I'd Rather Be Your Lover, etc. Just bad. Ballads around '95-'96 were just awful. I hate Playground too, what a snooze. The best Midge ballads are ones written with Pat. David Foster, Babyface? Puuuuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 That CD tracklisting has too many upbeat songs and skips alot of top ten hits. It sucks. The DVD has glaring ommissions like Everybody (performance video or not this was her first video & should be included), This Used To Be My Playground, American Life (flag version or uncensored just as long as we have a video), & You Must Love Me. The Gambler video would be a nice thing to add to the DVD as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 SECRET is the one song that should have been a mega classic..It always seems so forgotten That songs is just pure class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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