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A Question For The Madonna Critics


Cherish

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Guest SuperPop

I love almost everything that she has released during the 00s except the disappointing for a lead single 4M and the abysmal duet with Britney..

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Guest bluejean

Why can't a madonna "fan" also be a "critic?"

Exactly.

I have liked almost everything she has done. I like this song, but I don't love the production of it and I don't expect it to be huge hit. Sorry if you don't like hearing these sorts of opinions that differ to your own.

Maybe they can create a separate section for the rose coloured glasses type fans?

Oh and to answer your question, the last song I absolutely loved was most of the Hard Candy album. And I still love it!

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i don't get why madonna fans don't like hard candy. i love the first 6 songs so much (yes, even candy shop) and i think they're way better than celebration. i even think hard candy is slightly better than confessions (just a bit).

I love Hard Candy! Heartbeat,Miles Away,Devil Wouldn't Recognize You,Beat Goes On,She's Not Me,Dance 2Night,and Give It 2 Me are classic Madonna tunes,imo.These songs sound "new" and fresh,yet they still have that classic 80s Madonna sound/vibe to them.That's what I love about Hard Candy....it's an updating of the classic Madonna sound of the 80s.COADF was too,but with a Eurodisco vibe.

I don't like Celebration very much.It's okay,but it's not nearly as good as any of the Hard Candy tracks that I listed above.

American Life is the only recent Madonna album that I'm not in love with.There are a few great songs,but much of it is simply boring.Songs like Nothing Fails,Intervention and X-Static Process put me to sleep.Alot of fans love Hollywood,but I don't think it's anything to write home about.

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Guest dicktracy

I really like Celebration. Definitely sub-par but at least it's not pretentious. In fact, it's practically better than most tracks in AL (cue major MNation uproar...). The last tracks I loved were from HC: Heartbeat, Devil Wouldn't Recognize You, Give It 2 Me (I mentally block the "get stupid" part everytime I hear it), Beat Goes On. I really enjoy 4 Minutes and Voices but I only started liking Candy Shop after hearing the tour version. She's Not Me, Miles Away, and Incredible are ok IMO and I could have lived without Spanish Lesson and Dance 2Nite (but don't hate them either).

There are very few M tracks that I don't liXke enough to skip:

HC: none

COADF: none

AL: X-Static Process (This is b-side material at best; in fact, Has To Be is miles away better than this)

Music: Nobody's Perfect (the vocoder drives me crazy after a while)

ROL: none

BS: none

Erotica: Did You Do It (I don't even consider it her track) and In This Life (good melody but the production and length is too much to take)

I'm Breathless: Cry Baby (annoying)

LAP: none

TB: none

LAV: none

Madonna: none

Other songs I'm not fond of: Hey You (duh), Freedom, Ain't No Big Deal, Cyberraga.

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Hmm

I don't hate Celebration personally.. I just think it's way below her standards..

as for HC, I was one of the few in here defending it.. it's not one of her best albums.. but it's good enough.. Madonna has YET to release a bad studio album according to me!

COADF was really great and grew on me... but not too fond of her going the eurodanceclub path.. but it was very professionally made.. she took that sound and made it classy and fresh... with "Celebration" unfortunately she's just having that sound but without transforming it to something more classy and personal as she did with COADF...

I have to admit though that both HC and COADF felt a little uninspired compared to the albums prior.. they were more "safe" albums and wasn't really the Madonna that I love, who tries new sounds and take something not so commercial and make it mainstream... I think none of these albums presented something fresh in the way that former albums did.. but it doesn't make them bad albums though.. For instance I like COADF more than Music, although "Music" being the more "original" sounding...

I guess "Celebration" is the first time I really felt a little "warning sign" of Madonna loosing the touch and creativity.. but then again it's just a track to promote a GH and I guess shouldn't been taken too seriously.. it would have been worse for me if it would be a lead single for a whole new album... not that it's that bad.. it's good for a party... but it's just too anonymous and dated for a serious Madonna release..

But I agree with what you say though.. some people here basically hate everything she does more or less.. it's one thing to be critical about certain things.. but the ones who basically criticize all she does just can't be real fans.. no matter what they say

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I love every single one of her records up to HC. A lot of people say COADF showed a lack of creativity and her unique touch, but I don't see that at all. I don't think it's a standard dance album. It did have very personal and creative elements to it.

I like a few songs on HC (Miles Away, Devil, Voices, Candy Shop) but overall I think it's a very weak album. I feel the same about Celebration.

I don't think you stop being a fan because you don't like one album and one single. But if you hate everything someone has done recently except for the 80's, it's hard to call you a fan anymore.

I don't think she's losing her creativity. I just think that she has had a lot of other stuff on her mind and has had a lot of personal issues the last couple of years.

I can't be too harsh on her. No one can be inspired all the time. I know from my job sometimes I don't feel inspired or excited about doing something, but I have a deadline and I have to finish something, so I do the best I can. You can't come up with something brilliant and mindblowing all the time. But I think over the years, she has had an excellent record of doing that with just a few missteps.

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Celebration is great.

Hearing people here on on and on about how dated it is, can be pretty tiresome....especially since it's supposed to have a retro clubby feeling, to echo her past, more or less.

Hearing people here criticize the production is just LAUGHABLE, considering none of these moronic backseat tech specialists, could find the tip of their noses in a studio. Oakenfold may not be a favorite around here, but the man knows his way around a studio, and so does Madonna for that matter.

This isn't amateur hiur with Mac pro-tools.

A fan forum is by definition, a place for FANS....not a soap box for haters and trolls, who have no other outlet for their misery. There are a few people who post here, who are CLEARLY OVER MADONNA. Are the Gaga and Britney Spears fan boards really that dull??

Madonna hasn't lost the plot, but some of her fans have.

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Guest Coked Up Baby Boy

The complaining from the haters is just as annoying as the complaining about the complaining from the haters :dazed:

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And there are a lot of them on this board!

For all those who hate "Celebration" or anything from HARD CANDY or even COADFL before that:

WHAT WAS THE LAST MADONNA SONG YOU LIKED?

Well her artistry took a pause after the confessions era for me....when I heard she was making "Hard Candy" I was happy she was returning to some funk and R&B songs that recalled her earlier records, but it turned stale. Nothing is as exciting as the confessions era and even the american life era when there was controversy surrounding that whole project, but atleast the music backed it up. She has more artistry and ballsy moves in her...I just think her heart was not into the Hard Candy era and even this Celebration song due to her final commitents with DOA Warner, which will alow her to generate those creative juices for her brand new album with Live Nation as well as setting a profound impact with that upcoming release. Not that's when the REAL fun begins :dramatic:

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I’m not overly critical of Madonna – I’ve been the biggest cheerleader of her output this decade – I love her face forward push into electronic music. I don’t dismiss her efforts to incorporate her faith into her art.

I’m apart of the minority who believes American Life is the most important musical endeavor she’s had this decade. Of course had it been a mega success Madonna would’ve become more pretentious and ambitious and that’s my favorite Madonna – when she’s strange she gets closer to genius.

The worst song she’s let out of the studio this decade is “Hey You” – even for a charity song it’s a kind of disservice for the cause she’s attempting to help – being that it’s crap.

No I don’t like “Celebration” because there’s nothing to celebrate about it – it’s harmless for a song design to sell copies of her latest compilation.

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I’m apart of the minority who believes American Life is the most important musical endeavor she’s had this decade. Of course had it been a mega success Madonna would’ve become more pretentious and ambitious and that’s my favorite Madonna – when she’s strange she gets closer to genius.

Could not have said it better. I do as well happen to think American Life was a mile stone of its kind, hopefully we will get more of those along the way.

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Guest Bad Robot

I like Celebration. Particularly the Benassi mix.

I didn't care much for Hard Candy. It had a few decent songs (most notably Beat Goes On) but it was pretty uninspired.

COADF, on the other hand, was fantastic.

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I'm not overly critical of Madonna I've been the biggest cheerleader of her output this decade I love her face forward push into electronic music. I don't dismiss her efforts to incorporate her faith into her art.

I'm apart of the minority who believes American Life is the most important musical endeavor she's had this decade. Of course had it been a mega success Madonna would've become more pretentious and ambitious and that's my favorite Madonna when she's strange she gets closer to genius.

The worst song she's let out of the studio this decade is "Hey You" even for a charity song it's a kind of disservice for the cause she's attempting to help being that it's crap.

No I don't like "Celebration" because there's nothing to celebrate about it it's harmless for a song design to sell copies of her latest compilation.

What an insightful reply. I won't pretend to understand why you dislike "Celebration", but maybe it has to do with the fact that you enjoy her more deeper and darker lyrics since you mentioned your big appreciation for the album American Life? I can totally respect that. I have no issue with the album myself. I agree it's an odd one out for her. At the same time, I think the album got a bad rap being it's regarded as anti-American/War. Yes, it was quite personal for her, even some may say "political" in a sense, but there was nothing "anti" about it.

Thanks for your reply. I hope you can just enjoy the new song "as is". As you stated, it's just a "harmless song".

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Guest Danny86

A fan forum is by definition, a place for FANS....not a soap box for haters and trolls, who have no other outlet for their misery. There are a few people who post here, who are CLEARLY OVER MADONNA. Are the Gaga and Britney Spears fan boards really that dull??

I think it's obvious that on such forums, they would not find the pleasure to wind up the "loons".

I didn't care much for Hard Candy. It had a few decent songs (most notably Beat Goes On) but it was pretty uninspired.

I actually still don't understand how you can think that when you're one of the few people here who openly support "hip hop" and you were so over the moon about the Timbaland era of Nelly Furtado. I can't really see how you cannot be into songs like "Candy Shop", "4 Minutes", "Give It 2 Me", "Heartbeat", plus I still don't get why anyone would think COADF was the more "inspired" album when that was basically Madonna singing simple songs over old dance hits. The songwriting alone shows more inspiration and thought put into HC.

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Guest Bad Robot

I actually still don't understand how you can think that when you're one of the few people here who openly support "hip hop" and you were so over the moon about the Timbaland era of Nelly Furtado. I can't really see how you cannot be into songs like "Candy Shop", "4 Minutes", "Give It 2 Me", "Heartbeat", plus I still don't get why anyone would think COADF was the more "inspired" album when that was basically Madonna singing simple songs over old dance hits. The songwriting alone shows more inspiration and thought put into HC.

What bothered me, particularly when people made assumptions that any hip-hop sound = automatic chart hit, was the notion that all hip-hop is the same. There's bad hip-hop and good hip-hop and great hip-hop. I would say HC is mostly "good," but I stand by calling it uninspired.

I listen to many songs from the album (interestingly you picked pretty much all my faves in your list there) -- I just do not see anything particularly special about the album. It just sounds to me like M was going through the motions. It could've been anybody else singing those songs. I am critical of HC because I feel like it was her first album in ages where I wasn't hearing anything truly "new." Even her previous attempt at R&B, "Bedtime Stories," was bridging a few different sounds, and it seemed clearly like she worked the songs hard to get them where she wanted them. Listening to some of the demos from HC it sounds like Madonna just changed a few words and called it a day. (Interestingly, the song that most changed over the demos, Beat Goes On, ended up being to my ears the most genuinely "Madonna" track on there.)

I probably give that album too hard of a time -- had it been by a new artist instead of M, I probably would've recommended it to friends as a fun (if not particularly fresh) album.

I just have a higher standard for M than I do for most other pop artists.

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I still don't get why anyone would think COADF was the more "inspired" album when that was basically Madonna singing simple songs over old dance hits. The songwriting alone shows more inspiration and thought put into HC.

Oh please. There's blindly favoring an album over another and there's being plain delusional. That is such a simplistic assesment of COADF. The nods and winks at old hits and the way they were weaved into new and exciting sounds makes COADF a superior album alone. Not to mention the melodies and level of songwriting. On HC, Madonna just took the shit demos and sounds her 'collaborators' had created without her and added a couple of lines. Which basically is consolation since the material is subpar AT BEST and completely limp and shiteous at worst. You can favor HC for whatever weird reason but dont just spew baseless accusations.

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Guest Danny86

BR, I do see your point and it's all your opinion, but this standards thing is what I addressed earlier in the thread. You mentioned Bedtime Stories, which made you become a fan (I know that from your site ;) ) so it was probably all new for you and impressed you and you still hold it in high regards, but for a lot of people that's an album of "TLC/Toni Braxton rejects" and a Bjork song that's basically "Violently Happy" in a different tempo. So maybe for you it feels that she was doing something new here, but for a lot of others, she wasn't. And I know COADF felt different and new for US fans but for Europeans it was really a safe record that had hints of Kylie and other famous and safe acts.

As for changing words in demos, that happened throughout her career, "Don't Tell Me" is basically a cover and "ROL" only had a few words changed, yet those are highly regarded by fans. "Nothing Fails" was also not written by her, so I don't see why she's only given dirt for "Heartbeat".

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Guest Danny86

Oh please. There's blindly favoring an album over another and there's being plain delusional. That is such a simplistic assesment of COADF. The nods and winks at old hits and the way they were weaved into new and exciting sounds makes COADF a superior album alone. Not to mention the melodies and level of songwriting. On HC, Madonna just took the shit demos and sounds her 'collaborators' had created without her and added a couple of lines. Which basically is consolation since the material is subpar AT BEST and completely limp and shiteous at worst. You can favor HC for whatever weird reason but dont just spew baseless accusations.

That's very rich, coming after you saying Madonna only added a couple of lines here and there, as if you were there in the studio.

Anyway, my point was that COADF has very basic song structures, it's verse-chorus-verse-chorus-chorus-chorus-chorus and song over. Basically LIWB is "just let it be, oh let it be, won't you let it be" repeated over and over, I don't see how that songwriting holds a candle to something like "Give It 2 Me" and "She's Not Me" that contain a lot of different song sections. "Sorry", "How High" or "Forbidden Love" don't even have a bridge, I just think that's OBJECTIVELY a worse songwriting. Not to mention "Isaac" that's the laziest song ever in terms of songwriting. On HC "Miles Away" is the only thing that can come close to the repetitiveness of COADF.

And maybe for you it makes it an exciting and superior album that Madonna took a page from ABBA, Moroder, PSB, Erasure, Daft Punk but it doesn't make it any more creative than HC. To me the melodies are catchy on COADF, but even more on HC.

So you can hate HC all you want, but don't go into useless assumptions. ;)

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Anyway, my point was that COADF has very basic song structures, it's verse-chorus-verse-chorus-chorus-chorus-chorus and song over. Basically LIWB is "just let it be, oh let it be, won't you let it be" repeated over and over, I don't see how that songwriting holds a candle to something like "Give It 2 Me" and "She's Not Me" that contain a lot of different song sections. "Sorry", "How High" or "Forbidden Love" don't even have a bridge, I just think that's OBJECTIVELY a worse songwriting. Not to mention "Isaac" that's the laziest song ever in terms of songwriting. On HC "Miles Away" is the only thing that can come close to the repetitiveness of COADF.

That's a very technical definition of songwriting which I don't think most fans and people who enjoy music use. I don't think a song is a better song because it has a more complicated structure. To me, what makes a great song is if it touches me emotionally and is catchy and something I want to listen to repeated times, not how many choruses or bridges it has. Under my definition, the songwriting on COADF is better by miles in my opinion.

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That's very rich, coming after you saying Madonna only added a couple of lines here and there, as if you were there in the studio.

Anyway, my point was that COADF has very basic song structures, it's verse-chorus-verse-chorus-chorus-chorus-chorus and song over. Basically LIWB is "just let it be, oh let it be, won't you let it be" repeated over and over, I don't see how that songwriting holds a candle to something like "Give It 2 Me" and "She's Not Me" that contain a lot of different song sections. "Sorry", "How High" or "Forbidden Love" don't even have a bridge, I just think that's OBJECTIVELY a worse songwriting. Not to mention "Isaac" that's the laziest song ever in terms of songwriting. On HC "Miles Away" is the only thing that can come close to the repetitiveness of COADF.

And maybe for you it makes it an exciting and superior album that Madonna took a page from ABBA, Moroder, PSB, Erasure, Daft Punk but it doesn't make it any more creative than HC. To me the melodies are catchy on COADF, but even more on HC.

So you can hate HC all you want, but don't go into useless assumptions. ;)

I've HEARD THE DEMOS and the previous incarnations of the wonderful songs on HC. And it boggles the mind that dragging a song out for six minutes makes a song better to you. By that logic, Incredible is the BEST THING she's ever done. Oh and of course... Those amazing, classic Madonna bridges on HC. SEE MY BOOTY GET DOWN indeed. Look there's no accounting for (shit) taste but when an album is universally REVILED by critics and fans alike, TAKE THE HINT. I can't believe someone would actually ARGUE that the beautifull crafted COADF is in ANY way inferior to the tossed off HC. Talk about APOLOGISTS.

PS. I DO think it's better to pay TRUE homage to PSB and Giorgio Moroder than to copy NELLY FURTADO and JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE. I mean Madonna was thanking JUSTIN for taking her in a new direction melodically. THAT SAYS IT ALL REALLY.

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Guest Danny86

I've HEARD THE DEMOS and the previous incarnations of the wonderful songs on HC. And it boggles the mind that dragging a song out for six minutes makes a song better to you. By that logic, Incredible is the BEST THING she's ever done. Oh and of course... Those amazing, classic Madonna bridges on HC. SEE MY BOOTY GET DOWN indeed. Look there's no accounting for (shit) taste but when an album is universally REVILED by critics and fans alike, TAKE THE HINT. I can't believe someone would actually ARGUE that the beautifull crafted COADF is in ANY way inferior to the tossed off HC. Talk about APOLOGISTS.

PS. I DO think it's better to pay TRUE homage to PSB and Giorgio Moroder than to copy NELLY FURTADO and JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE. I mean Madonna was thanking JUSTIN for taking her in a new direction melodically. THAT SAYS IT ALL REALLY.

:megamanson:

The only thing that's universally reviled here is anyone who disagrees with you. So you take the hint. What the hell is your fucking agenda on this forum? Do you really have nothing else to do than annoy the hell out of anyone who even remotely disagrees with you. Every single post you make is a stab at the so called APOLOGIST LOONS you totally hate here. You contribute nothing to this forum other than promoting your pop princesses and provocating Madonna fans. And yes, I'm aware of the fact that now that I said that, I'm gonna be one of the FIFTY people you keep stalking on this board for your amusement. But it seems not even EVERYONE complaining about you is enough for the moderators to notice. Disgusting.

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I loved HC. I adored COADF. I love Celebration.

Last thing I hated by Madonna was half of American life lp. So uninspired and forced and unlistenable.

But she came back stronger than ever with COADF. COADF is probably my favourite Madonna album.

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:megamanson:

The only thing that's universally reviled here is anyone who disagrees with you. So you take the hint. What the hell is your fucking agenda on this forum? Do you really have nothing else to do than annoy the hell out of anyone who even remotely disagrees with you. Every single post you make is a stab at the so called APOLOGIST LOONS you totally hate here. You contribute nothing to this forum other than promoting your pop princesses and provocating Madonna fans. And yes, I'm aware of the fact that now that I said that, I'm gonna be one of the FIFTY people you keep stalking on this board for your amusement. But it seems not even EVERYONE complaining about you is enough for the moderators to notice. Disgusting.

So this is about ME now? Wtf? Some people are REALLY odd.

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Guest ursaminorjim

I'd say that the second half of Madonna's career has been far more interesting than the first. While it's probably safe to say that she's experienced her lowest lows from Bedtime Stories to Celebration, she's also hit her most incredible peaks, musically speaking. Will she ever record an entire album as flawless as Like a Prayer again? Probably not. But she doesn't have to, either. Every album she releases contains at least one classic Madonna tune. Sure some are better than others - some have more depth, better production, a smarter approach. I'd say her drive to be taken seriously as an artist (combined with her astonishing sense of entitlement) is what's propelling her forward now, for better and for worse. But better a misdirected drive to try something different than a lazy contentment to rest on her not-inconsiderable laurels.

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:megamanson:

The only thing that's universally reviled here is anyone who disagrees with you. So you take the hint. What the hell is your fucking agenda on this forum? Do you really have nothing else to do than annoy the hell out of anyone who even remotely disagrees with you. Every single post you make is a stab at the so called APOLOGIST LOONS you totally hate here. You contribute nothing to this forum other than promoting your pop princesses and provocating Madonna fans. And yes, I'm aware of the fact that now that I said that, I'm gonna be one of the FIFTY people you keep stalking on this board for your amusement. But it seems not even EVERYONE complaining about you is enough for the moderators to notice. Disgusting.

That's why the ignore feature is so nice!! But well said!! ;)

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