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Madonna being referenced heavily in news coverage of Jackson's death


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Guest nothingfails0603
Once again Madonna was not a pioneer but a follower that outmastered the artist before her. He was the first to fully utilize the medium (music videos/MTV) but in the end she profited the longest and arguably the most from it.

As great a video artist MJ was and as much as he added to the artform and medium, I do think people get a little carried away saying that videos were non-existant before him. Queen, ABBA, Blondie, Rod Stewart, David Bowie, Elton John amongst others were making videos for every single released in the mid/late 70's when MTV was a concept unheard of. True most of the early videos were very primitive but there were some great ones in the pre-MTV batch like "Ashes To Ashes" or Elton's "Ego" that could've held it's own against most of what was out five years later when MTV was in full swing.

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I think MJ is overrated in videos, Thriller was great cuz it was so cinematic & epic but he never went beyond those elements, Madonna owns Video she used it as a true art form

Prince fans.. :rolleyes:

Prince, take it easy and like you said on cloreen baconskin, pace yourself. If you go, its all over, and all we'll be left with is Madonna. And you know and i know that no one wants that. No offence, Madonna, but come on.

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The hyperbole has reached epic levels. Somehow when Madonna goes I still feel she will be getting a ton of backhanded compliments.

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The hyperbole has reached epic levels. Somehow when Madonna goes I still feel she will be getting a ton of backhanded compliments.

Not from Marie Osmond. Has ET asked for her statement on MJ yet?

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Prince fans:

Madonna left a message with the press.

Of course she did, shes an attention whore.

----

Goodness. Michael, Prince and Madonna...Remember how we used to be bumping them on the house radio and tryin to stay up late to watch them when they performed on tv shows? They were the end all be all, and we didn't have a care in the world back then while we were listening to them...we didn't picture them not being able to dance all over the stage, let alone be in bad health. Lawd knows I haven't paid much attention to any of these folks in years, but if I swear if something happens to Prince or Madonna's haggly behind I'm just going to be a hot wreck.

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Not from Marie Osmond. Has ET asked for her statement on MJ yet?

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

You KNOW she is standing by with her thoughts on Ed McMahan, Farrah, Michael, Global Warming, Iran and that crazy Governor that went to Argentina!

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I think MJ is overrated in videos, Thriller was great cuz it was so cinematic & epic but he never went beyond those elements, Madonna owns Video she used it as a true art form

Come on, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Thriller," "Bad," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Dirty Diana," "Smooth Criminal," "Black or White," "Remember the Time," "In the Closet," "Jam" and "Scream" are ALL iconic videos, even today. Obviously love Madonna, but Michael puts her to the ground and nails her coffin SHUT if we're talking music videos/short films. He truly redefined the term. Let's be objective here.

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Guest Pud Whacker
Come on, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Thriller," "Bad," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Dirty Diana," "Smooth Criminal," "Black or White," "Remember the Time," "In the Closet," "Jam" and "Scream" are ALL iconic videos, even today. Obviously love Madonna, but Michael puts her to the ground and nails her coffin SHUT if we're talking music videos/short films. He truly redefined the term. Let's be objective here.

NO, NO, NO AND NO.

michael wished he had a like a prayer, express yourself - hell even a la isla.

im sorry of the ones you named i can really only say thriller is any good.

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NO, NO, NO AND NO.

michael wished he had a like a prayer, express yourself - hell even a la isla.

im sorry of the ones you named i can really only say thriller is any good.

"Smooth Criminal" isn't any good? "Black or White" isn't any good? Jesus, even "Scream" - so much more advanced than ANYTHING before it, most expensive video ever made and it shows. Puddy, love of my life, come now...:lol: You may not like Michael as much as Madge, of course I understand that, but put the bias aside. He was the KING of music videos, iconic video after iconic video whether or not you think they're good, they are still so remembered. Love LAP and EY, but they don't even compete, especially in 1983 when she was doing "Lucky Star" and he was doing "Thriller".

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CNN mentioned her statement again. Wolf Blitzer said "Let me mention Madonna. Madonna says "I can't stop crying".

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Guest Danny86
michael wished he had a like a prayer, express yourself - hell even a la isla.

Exactly. MJ never reached the LAP level of videos. Apart from a few exceptions, like "Who Is It" or "Earth Song", most of them are self-celebratory and are only meant to show off his moves. He even kept reusing ideas, like "Bad" was another "gang war" thing and "You Rock My World" was "Smooth Criminal" rehash.

However, the Thriller videos were really influential, once I read that the group dance of "Beat It" is basically the blueprint for all those choreography-oriented videos we've seen tons of.

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Guest Coked Up Baby Boy
It's interesting. I think part of it also has to do with vulnerability, weakness and warmth. Michael, Diana, Marilyn, Judy (and Elvis to a certain extent) had an air of tragedy and fragility and I think the public felt an unconscious sense of responsibility in a strange way. It's the chink in their armour that let the public in and it's this weakness that ensured their public's forgiveness.

It's harder with Madonna, she's a fighter, she's tough, viewed as cold, calculating and wily. She's a strong woman, her armour seems impenetrable, it doesn't have that chink and she doesn't have that air of tragedy the public so loves. In dealing so heavily in sex and religion she's also alienated a sizeable portion of the public. Madonna's also always working and isn't nostalgic which doesn't give people an opportunity to take stock and evaluate her body of work.

In death I do think she'll be revered, gaining recognition for her work and for being the icon that she is. Without wanting to sound like a cunt, there's also an historical and social context to much of Madonna's work that will become clearer with the distance of time.

So BEYOND right.

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^^ Exactly. After Thriller, I saw all his stuff as rehashes. Granted there was some really good stuff after Thriller, but nothing ground-breaking or particularly interesting IMO.

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Come on, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Thriller," "Bad," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Dirty Diana," "Smooth Criminal," "Black or White," "Remember the Time," "In the Closet," "Jam" and "Scream" are ALL iconic videos, even today. Obviously love Madonna, but Michael puts her to the ground and nails her coffin SHUT if we're talking music videos/short films. He truly redefined the term. Let's be objective here.

Great examples 2 prove my point

The ones bolded r virtually interchangeable, same video different set

The premise always the same : chase girl/dance off

'don't stop till you get enough' vid I love cuz it's disco kitsch

Dirty Diana, don't c anything remotely special about that

Black or White : expensive

Scream : more expensive

Jam : crap

In the closet, I like, Herb captured a certain sensibility in him as a performer

I remember when 'Rock my world' was released that video was sucha joke & the formula recycling at an absolute low

Not even Marlon Brando saved that mess

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He certainly revolutionalized video and broke new ground at the time, but his videos dated very quickly, with increasingly tired, pointless and silly dance moves rehashed endlessly. Jam an iconic video? :wacko:

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Where does Michael chase a girl in "Bad"? Or "Beat It"? Or "Smooth Criminal"? Nowhere to be found in any of those. In fact, all three have totally different premises. "Black or White" is very technologically advanced, especially at the end with the morphing faces - that wasn't exactly popular at the time. The dancing in the extended version is fantastic too. "Scream", well that speaks for itself. SO advanced for 1995. "You Rock My World" is indeed garbage, I didn't list it for that reason.

I know this is a Madonna board but I was hoping a little more objectivity would be found. You really can't deny Michael's video legacy - the rest of the world doesn't, he may be a "dirty child molester" but you don't see many trashing his videos. Like I said, love Madge of course, but many of her videos are garbage. Talk about repeating premises, how many times did she dance purposelessly with two dancers behind her? That's not *even* a premise. It was Michael's forté, hers is the consistent output of great albums.

P.S. As far as "Jam" goes, ehhh...not so much "iconic", I revoke that.

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Guest Danny86
I know this is a Madonna board but I was hoping a little more objectivity would be found. You really can't deny Michael's video legacy - the rest of the world doesn't for a reason. Like I said, love Madge's output, but some of her videos are trash. Talk about repeating premises, how many times did she dance purposelessly with two dancers behind her? It was Michael's forté, hers is the consistent output of great albums.

Huh? Are you even familiar with her videography? That description only fits "Everybody" & "Lucky Star"! Most of her videos don't even feature choreography!

And nobody ever said that Madonna's video output is immaculate...

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="
name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I must have missed the part where I said "it NEVER happened prior." I said it wasn't popular, which it wasn't. Besides, you can see in that one the actual screen image changes. It's not the same. In "Black or White," each face literally morphs into another, watch it and you'll see. Hair spurts and all. :lol:

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Guest Pud Whacker
"Smooth Criminal" isn't any good? "Black or White" isn't any good? Jesus, even "Scream" - so much more advanced than ANYTHING before it, most expensive video ever made and it shows. Puddy, love of my life, come now... :lol: You may not like Michael as much as Madge, of course I understand that, but put the bias aside. He was the KING of music videos, iconic video after iconic video whether or not you think they're good, they are still so remembered. Love LAP and EY, but they don't even compete, especially in 1983 when she was doing "Lucky Star" and he was doing "Thriller".

no, really - its all a question of taste. its like what paintings are people drawn to. with michael, i never saw his videos as interesting or cool. in fact, he was cool-less. it was always just corny. just my personal taste, you know?

and to me, lucky star is far greater than thriller. i prefer a little blond italian whore with roots and red lips rolling on the floor skanked out to some dude in costume make up as a ghoul. thats why im at madonnanation.com and not jackosjoint.com.

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I'm not trashing him or his videos! it's just my opinion

& I said 'chase girl' slash 'dance off' as in Beat It, Bad & Smooth Criminal

If u can't c that :confused:

& I never liked 'Scream' it didn't even seem that expensive at the time

I think they made a mistake shooting it in b&w plus the dancing 4 two such

'powerhouses' in that field was very dissapointing

2 dancers behind her? U mean Lucky star?

Black or White is a mess 2 desperate an attempt 2 come up with something 'huge'

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Guest Pud Whacker
Where does Michael chase a girl in "Bad"? Or "Beat It"? Or "Smooth Criminal"? Nowhere to be found in any of those. In fact, all three have totally different premises. "Black or White" is very technologically advanced, especially at the end with the morphing faces - that wasn't exactly popular at the time. The dancing in the extended version is fantastic too. "Scream", well that speaks for itself. SO advanced for 1995. "You Rock My World" is indeed garbage, I didn't list it for that reason.

I know this is a Madonna board but I was hoping a little more objectivity would be found. You really can't deny Michael's video legacy - the rest of the world doesn't, he may be a "dirty child molester" but you don't see many trashing his videos. Like I said, love Madge of course, but many of her videos are garbage. Talk about repeating premises, how many times did she dance purposelessly with two dancers behind her? That's not *even* a premise. It was Michael's forté, hers is the consistent output of great albums.

P.S. As far as "Jam" goes, ehhh...not so much "iconic", I revoke that.

dude its a bout taste not being objective - so throw that line out the window now.

do you prefer dali or picasso? its as simple as that.

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Guest Pud Whacker

YOU EITHER DOWN OR YOU AINT DOWN!!!

STOP IT - IM BAD!!!!

no.

girl runs and falls on dirt and enters church after witnessing rape in torn slip.

YES.

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Guest nothingfails0603

Regarding the downfall in his video quality. I think the main problem, especially during the Dangerous era (the HIStory videos were a bit better IMO) is that MJ aimed for everything to be bigger and bigger when no many how much $$$ he'd pour into a video, the imprint Thriller left behind wasn't duplicable.

I do think things improved with the HIStory run of videos. Granted there was a lot of ego that went into promotion (the huge statue, etc...), the videos for the album all showed different facets of Michael that we didn't see during Dangerous or most of Bad. Hell, "Stranger In Moscow" was one of the humblest things MJ did in his whole career. No dancing, no elaborate sets, just MJ and a cast of several other characters who were lonely and share the rain together. Same with the "Childhood" video, MJ being the most vulnerable we'd seen him in a video since "She's Out Of My Life". That was a great era for him even if it wasn't one of his biggest. The videos of his were probably his finest lot since the one-two-three punch of Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller.

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not jackosjoint.com.

:lmao:

I don't even want to debate this anymore, all I'm saying is that Michael Jackson is known more for making iconic (not necessarily good - that is, like Pud said, taste) videos while Madonna is known more for consistently good albums yet managing to reinvent herself.

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