Darren Hayes Comments On Revolver

[Guest ursaminorjim]

What does "urban" mean, exactly? And why is it not desirable?

[fak]

Agreed! although APAT i liked overall to be honest. Donna has a strong voice though - it shines through the music.

I notice people are mentioning Donna Summer here and on another thread. IMO, she is the perfect analogy to Hard Candy. HC for Madonna is similar to Another Place And Time, the album Donna did with SAW in 1989. I actually like APAT more than the bulk of the music SAW released if only for the fact it was Donna Summer, but the album was basically a faceless SAW album with Donna's voice and likeness on the album cover. It did boast some good songs for her, but it is probably her most faceless recording and was done to once again be relevant by working with the top producers of the era... sound familiar?

[acpl08]

It's funny how everyone gets up in arms over the misdescription of COADF as "euro-disco" yet people continue to refer to HC as "hip hop" and "urban"

[fak]

generally refers to Hip-hop/RnB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_contemporary

but some dance and pop songs have made the list too although that being because they were by black artists or black-influenced artists.

theres nothing wrong with urban. why is it not desireable? she is just not an urban artist. she cant pull it off. i love some urban songs and much prefer the 90's stuff. eve though that was emore urban than the electronic influenced stuff you get now.

madonna jumped on the urban bandwagon when many have jumped off it and started experimenting.

i dont have a problem with HC being urban - its just not a very good album and she is not convincing in it.

What does "urban" mean, exactly? And why is it not desirable?

[fak]

Because Timbaland, Timberlake, Kanye, Pharrell are all considered Urban. True the album is not very Urban but Urban is not actually a style of music it appears to incorporate a lot more than that.

Urban might also include some dance songs by rihanna, ne yo, timbaland , sexyback - these songs may not be RnB/ihp-hop but they are still Urban.

Urban contemporary is a music radio format. The term was coined by the late New York DJ Frankie Crocker in the mid 1970s. Urban contemporary radio stations feature a playlist made up entirely of hip hop/rap, contemporary R&B, and, on occasion, Caribbean music such as reggae and reggaeton. Urban contemporary was developed through the characteristics of genres such as R&B and Soul[1].

The term "urban contemporary" has become heavily associated with African American Music and Latino music as well, particularly for the African Americans contemporary R&B. For the Latinos the music is more Latin urban like Reggaeton.

These stations focus primarily on marketing to African-Americans between the ages of 18 and 34[citation needed] but studies have shown that about 75% of listeners are White[2][verification needed]. Also there has been a sizable amount of Asian American and Hispanic listening to the format as well. Their playlists are dominated by singles by top-selling hip hop and R&B performers. On occasion, an urban contemporary station will play classic soul music songs from the '70s and early '80s to satisfy the earlier end of the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_contemporary

It's funny how everyone gets up in arms over the misdescription of COADF as "euro-disco" yet people continue to refer to HC as "hip hop" and "urban"

[Guest nothingfails0603]

theres nothing wrong with urban. why is it not desireable? she is just not an urban artist. she cant pull it off. i love some urban songs and much prefer the 90's stuff. eve though that was emore urban than the electronic influenced stuff you get now.

madonna jumped on the urban bandwagon when many have jumped off it and started experimenting.

i dont have a problem with HC being urban - its just not a very good album and she is not convincing in it.

Quoted for truth.

I was a huge fan of Loose, FutureSex/LoveSounds and his work with Aaliyah, so I really was interested when I heard M was working with Timbaland. Same with some of Pharrell's productions. I love me some good r&b, HC IMO was not good r&b just like Cher's Believe (Living Proof yes, Believe no) was not good dance music IMO. The people who swear up and down that HC is great and everyone who doesn't like it are circuit queens probably don't even have a Mary J. Blige album in their collection. THAT is good female r&b IMO, HC isn't. So aren't the closedminded ones the ones who don't have any female r&b albums that date past Rhythm Nation or Whitney to compare with, not the gay men who like female r&b but thought HC was mediocre and beneath Madonna?

[Guest ursaminorjim]

theres nothing wrong with urban. why is it not desireable?

Well, you intimated as much when you compared it to Confessions ("good music as opposed to the 'urban' influenced HC"), just wanted to clarify.

In any case, genres are for suckers. I listen to Hard Candy and hear a well-crafted, well-produced, horribly-mastered pop album. Period. These songs have more hooks and melody that I've heard from Madonna in ages. I like that it's more rhythmically sophisticated than the bludgeoning 4/4 of Confessions, but still remains infectiously danceable.

[Pabl0114]

I guess because Stuart made some slightly disparaging comments about Madonna's 'urban' direction and because he was suddenly dropped from Musical Director duties after 3 tours and a very succesful album?

Thank god for that...

[afrolito]

Ugh its so boring how people are constantly trying to split Madonnas work into little Genres and suggest which she should stick to for her next album. I mean the power of Madonna is that she can turn her hand to anything and her creativity allows her to excel in all kinds of different work.

Smartest thing said in this moronic thread.

[Pabl0114]

What does "urban" mean, exactly? And why is it not desirable?

another way of saying black. I live in atlanta and we have a large black gay population, all of my friends (wich are mostly black) loved hard candy. she brought back some old fans that had not payed attention to her in years and gained some new younger fans. (unfortunatelly most people didn't bother to actually buy the album). It was funny to come on this site and read all the bashing HC got and then run into people that loved the album. It all comes down to what kind of music you enjoy. I know that we all have our oppinions and stuff but some folks on here seem to take it so personal, like she recorded HC to piss them off on purpose...it's not that serious kids, it's just music.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

another way of saying black. I live in atlanta and we have a large black gay population, all of my friends (wich are mostly black) loved hard candy. she brought back some old fans that had not payed attention to her in years and gained some new younger fans. (unfortunatelly most people didn't bother to actually buy the album). It was funny to come on this site and read all the bashing HC got and then run into people that loved the album. It all comes down to what kind of music you enjoy. I know that we all have our oppinions and stuff but some folks on here seem to take it so personal, like she recorded HC to piss them off on purpose...it's not that serious kids, it's just music.

if those fans of Confessions who hated HC are closedminded... isn't it fair to say the same about those who loved HC and never gave COADF a chance because it was too electronic/European sounding?

[Guest blueferris]

I'm not even a fan of Darren at all, but I don't see why he deserves to be attacked for stating his opinion. Some people prefer the electronic dance direction than Lil Wayne shit. Don't we already have Mariah for that? Madonna was so "different" from all the other diva acts and then suddenly she's doing the same thing as them. Why should Darren be attacked as a queen for preferring Confessions to Hard Candy? Apparently consumers did as well.

dont we already have cher. . . kylie . . .jody watley . . . donna summer and every

other over 40 female singer that once had a thriving career making OTHER kinds of

music but hasnt had a real hit in 15+ years resorting to doing cliche club-house-

electronica "dance" music for the club charts & pride festivals because

radio wont play anything else they make now. Meh!!!

you may be ok with the 'BELIEVE' caricature madonna was on COADF but i'm not.

madonna got famous off of RHYTHMIC dance music and relaxing big pop ballads!!!

into the groove. . . holiday . . . like a prayer . . . lucky star. . . crazy for you. . .live to tell. . .bonita. . .

and my personal fav. TAKE A BOW! 7wks @ #1 baby & hasnt been topped yet! oooh i know that hurt!!!

then she got in2 bed with shep & has been gravating back to that house dance crap in

some way or another every since! even when she makes an effort to do something

else she always finds a way to go back to making another water down 'VOGUE' cousin.

it only got worse when she started hanging out with orbit.

CONFESSIONS SUCKED ASS IMO! THERE I SAID IT.

it & EVITA are the only 2 madonna cds i didn't bother to buy. even after hearing them.

KEEP that cheese kylie-ish 'SORRY'. . . that stardust knockoff 'GET TOGETHER' . . .

that super lame abba ripoff 'HUNG UP'. . . and that plain STUPID 'I LOVE NEW YORK' junk.

i didnt appreciate anything about CONFESSIONS.

i tried to like 'PUSH' but was only fooling myself there.

If HC didnt exist id STILL HATE CONFESSIONS! price was her all time WORSE collaborator IMO.

i'd sooner have her give a call to washed up reggie lucas than have another price cd.

as for darren when was the last time he did ANYTHING???

instead of worrying about who m does & doesnt work with. . . he should think about his own career. . .

or lack thereof ever since that WHAM-copycat group of his evaporated.

whose selling more records today him or lil wayne? but he wants to be stuckup. lol

[Guest Danny86]

Oh PLEASE. Do yourself a favor and go back and actually listen to her early music, you know...the 80's and it's all there. People who say COAD was a return to her early days are clearly reaching, Hard Candy is the real deal. It's ALL HER. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it "not her."

I agree, how can anyone say COADF is a true return to her roots musically? Her first two albums were R&B-tingled pop, not Giorgio Moroder, ABBA or dozens of synth pop acts that were referred to on COADF. Neither her songs were as repetitive as on COADF (the 2 verse and chorus repeated till no end structure). Of course compared to ROL-Music-AL, it comes closest to her early days because of the fun factor, but HC totally made all the "COADF is back to basics" album theories irrelevant. The producers of HC explicitly stated they were studying her first album, I guess people just can't see beyond the names of the collaborators.

people keep saying this, but how many of you have any other r&b albums from the past 5 years in your collection? If HC sounds like old school Madonna, then I guess so does Mariah's E=MC2, Rihanna's Good Girl Gone Bad and Beyonce's B. Day, Janet's Damita Jo and Nelly's Loose and about sixty other female r&b/pop albums that have come out since 2004 that have a little pop, a little hip hop, a little old-school and a little ballads. There is nothing on Hard Candy that wasn't done (better may I add) on any of the albums I listed, but you probably never listened to them because they're successful female artists who aren't Madonna, right?

Sorry, but I think you have some different CD under the name Hard Candy, because it has nothing to do with Mariah, Beyonce, Janet etc. I think you have some serious problem with anything labeled "urban" and you totally overgeneralize the whole thing, only because Kanye does a rap in one song and Pharrell comes in for shout outs. If you really think that makes HC equal to "sixty other female r&b/pop albums" then I doubt anyone will be able to convince you... You clearly made up your mind and decided that HC is "not her", because it doesn't fit your vision of Madonna after 20+ years of fandom, but that won't make HC some "ghetto" album still.

[Guest Danny86]

Oh and about consumers *preferring* COADF over HC, what is the evidence? Because I thought it was generally accepted that "Hung Up" was the main reason why people bought COADF, and because of all the positive "comeback" vibe created in the press, not to mention how it was stressed in every press release and review that it's a continuous album mix. Still, the majority of the sales came because of "Hung Up", and that was a song that appealed for an older, CD buying crowd for obvious reasons, "4 Minutes" was more appealing to the teens who probably never owned a portable CD player since they started out with mp3 players.

I just don't see how you can use sales to prove that people judged the whole album and preferred it over a record they might not have even given a chance to check out. It's like saying that everyone preferred Music over her last 3 albums, but that one was sold on the back of 2 huge singles and it didn't even matter if the rest of the album had fillers like "Runaway Lover", you just can't know what they thought of the album after they listened to the whole thing. Most of her albums after LAP were sold on the back of 2 singles, but nowadays it's easier and more convenient to just buy the 2 singles over an album with 10 other songs for 10 times larger price.

I can agree that certain demographics preferred "Hung Up" over "4 Minutes", but that's the only thing you can prove in this case.

[Etips]

I agree, how can anyone say COADF is a true return to her roots musically? Her first two albums were R&B-tingled pop, not Giorgio Moroder, ABBA or dozens of synth pop acts that were referred to on COADF. Neither her songs were as repetitive as on COADF (the 2 verse and chorus repeated till no end structure). Of course compared to ROL-Music-AL, it comes closest to her early days because of the fun factor, but HC totally made all the "COADF is back to basics" album theories irrelevant. The producers of HC explicitly stated they were studying her first album, I guess people just can't see beyond the names of the collaborators.

Sorry, but I think you have some different CD under the name Hard Candy, because it has nothing to do with Mariah, Beyonce, Janet etc. I think you have some serious problem with anything labeled "urban" and you totally overgeneralize the whole thing, only because Kanye does a rap in one song and Pharrell comes in for shout outs. If you really think that makes HC equal to "sixty other female r&b/pop albums" then I doubt anyone will be able to convince you... You clearly made up your mind and decided that HC is "not her", because it doesn't fit your vision of Madonna after 20+ years of fandom, but that won't make HC some "ghetto" album still.

Notice the dig he also took at Bedtime Stories. Seems like he made up his mind a long time ago that, for whatever reason, Madonna was supposed to be the “anti-Mariah.” So anything she does that contradicts that perception—his perception—is going to be condescended and generalized. Madonna, however, never promised anyone that she would be forever be their alternative to the R&B diva, or that she shared some covert disdain/creative detachment for that particular genre, or for hip hop. I don't understand how anyone could look at her entire (not just 1998 on up) body of work and still come to that conclusion.

[jonski43]

I don't find HC that 'urban' at all and nor was Bedtime Stories which was more ballad driven. There are only a couple of tracks that could be really classed like that. The rest is a great mix of ballads and pop. I prefer it over COADF by a long stretch as there is a mix of pace and style. COADF is really repetitive - I only listen to the singles as the rest is so much filler.

I wouldn't mind some songs with Stuart Price but another whole album of his production would be too much. His remixes for the album were terrible. Really bad electro stuff that were clunky and soulless.

She actually benefits from less obvious production - more subtle - a vibe rather than beating someone over the head with it like Timbaland on 4m.

[Guest Danny86]

Notice the dig he also took at Bedtime Stories. Seems like he made up his mind a long time ago that, for whatever reason, Madonna was supposed to be the “anti-Mariah.” So anything she does that contradicts that perception—his perception—is going to be condescended and generalized. Madonna, however, never promised anyone that she would be forever be their alternative to the R&B diva, or that she shared some covert disdain/creative detachment for that particular genre, or for hip hop. I don't understand how anyone could look at her entire (not just 1998 on up) body of work and still come to that conclusion.

Well, he always lets it clear that her worst albums are LAV, BS and HC, coincidentally the ones that were done by "hitmakers" and have some black music influences. I can see why someone who became a fan with True Blue would not like these albums, but it's still quite weird for them to decide which one is the "real" and genuine Madonna and tell apart from where she's "desperate" and "not being herself".

As for the Donna Summer-SAW comparison, sorry, but there were many who said ROL was just a William Orbit album with Madonna singing over his electro bleeps he had been doing for a decade (ROL had some not so enthusiastic reviews initially), and there was that "Stuart Price featuring Madonna" mock cover for COADF. Madonna's sound is always defined by the producer, there's no "oh but she always pushes them to do something different", if she had the ability for that, she would not need a specific person. But calling only the "hitmakers" who make a faceless Madonna product, but call the "unpopular" ones who don't do black music "real", is very biased in my opinion.

[Kurt420]

Quoted for truth.

I was a huge fan of Loose, FutureSex/LoveSounds and his work with Aaliyah, so I really was interested when I heard M was working with Timbaland. Same with some of Pharrell's productions. I love me some good r&b, HC IMO was not good r&b just like Cher's Believe (Living Proof yes, Believe no) was not good dance music IMO. The people who swear up and down that HC is great and everyone who doesn't like it are circuit queens probably don't even have a Mary J. Blige album in their collection. THAT is good female r&b IMO, HC isn't. So aren't the closedminded ones the ones who don't have any female r&b albums that date past Rhythm Nation or Whitney to compare with, not the gay men who like female r&b but thought HC was mediocre and beneath Madonna?

I don't think she was trying to make an R&B album, which is exactly why it is indeed not a good R&B album. It seems she went in with the intent on making a current sounding R&B influenced pop album....which are the same intentions she had soundwise for BS...... and that's what she did. It seems some fans simply have a bias against M doing stuff that is current and popular. If you LOVE Loose and FS/LS and claim that HC is a ripoff of those, then you should find at least SOME redeeming quality in HC and not consider it "beneath" M.

Of course you are going to hear similarites in Nelly, Justin and Madonna's albums because they were all done with the same producers in the same era and she specifically wanted that sound. But really what specific JT, Nelly, Gwen, MC song is She's Not Me ripping off? Or how about Incredible?? BGO? Dance 2night? As I said obviously there is similarity in production. But these supposed blatant ripoffs I'm just not hearing. DWRY and SL perhaps production wise but I can't match any of the others with the song that they are supposed to be ripping off.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

as for darren when was the last time he did ANYTHING???

instead of worrying about who m does & doesnt work with. . . he should think about his own career. . .

or lack thereof ever since that WHAM-copycat group of his evaporated.

whose selling more records today him or lil wayne? but he wants to be stuckup. lol

umm, Darren is openly gay. AMERICA DOES NOT EMBRACE OPENLY GAY POP STARS!!! America rejected Scissor Sisters, they rejected Mika, they rejected Robbie Williams (who is only rumored and is most likely straight), etc.... they rejected George Michael after the bathroom incident, they rejected PSB once they stopped being so vague about their sexuality, they rejected Elton once he started being more vocal about what he thinks as opposed to being that flamboyant gay guy who does nothing but sings, etc... It's not even a fair comparison between him and Lil Wayne because America doesn't accept openly gay pop stars. Christians still have way too much power to allow that here.

You cannot compare what was r&b in 1985 to what is r&b today. Into The Groove and Like A Virgin crossed over to urban because r&b music was more dance-friendly then. If those songs came out ten years later and sounded the same, they would've never gotten urban airplay. Back in those days where Madonna started out, r&b/dance was a whole different thing than today where hip hop and dance music are worlds apart, it's not even fair to compare them. If Madonna came out ten years later sounding like she did, r&b radio never would've accepted her. Hell, I have seen younger r&b fans who can't process that she was once popular on BET because they don't remember a time when uptempo r&b music wasn't married with hip hop.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Well, he always lets it clear that her worst albums are LAV, BS and HC, coincidentally the ones that were done by "hitmakers" and have some black music influences. I can see why someone who became a fan with True Blue would not like these albums, but it's still quite weird for them to decide which one is the "real" and genuine Madonna and tell apart from where she's "desperate" and "not being herself".

hmmm, I'm right here, stop pretending to talk behind my back. I consider LAV weaker not because it's got a black producer (hmm, then why was Diana Ross' album produced by the same guy my favorite album she ever did? Hmmm... why was my very first David Bowie purchase, even if it's not one of his better works, the one he produced?) but because that album was the closest to disposable bubblegum pop she ever recorded, like Debbie Gibson and Tiffany did later that decade, it's her teen pop album and I don't see very many people who actually consider it one of her best albums except maybe for nostalgic purposes.

Did you just just call me a racist? FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!! You know how I like Prince, Janet, MJ, Mariah (yes, I like her, did you not see where I said E=MC2 shits on HC? but I listen to Mariah for Mariah, I don't want to hear the same thing from Madge), Mary J., Beyonce, Stevie, Donna Summer, Jody Watley, old disco, old-school r&b, Motown, yadda yadda yadda, but because I happen to think Hard Candy is an album that Beyonce or Mariah could record in their sleep, I should be wearing a grand wizard outfit?

Anyways, you show how much you know me, I actually listen to LAV and BS more often than Erotica, an album you assume I "cherish" because it's by a dance producer.

[Guest Danny86]

^Uhm, no I didn't call you a racist, so no need for the language. I just pointed out that it's weird that you consider Madonna a faceless product when she worked with hitmakers, who also happened to give her urban/black music influences (David Foster is always forgotten in this case by the way).

As Kurt pointed out, it's just weird that if you enjoy other artists doing that kinda music, you're upset when Madonna does it the same, like you decide to put everyone in a box, but while most likely you'd enjoy Mariah and co doing music similiar to Madonna, you think it's "regression" if Madonna does urban. By the way, HC has some Prince influences, yet you always pick on only the comparison to Justin's ballads, as if most of the 12 songs were interchangeable, while they are not.

I still don't see how Mariah or Beyonce could have recorded HC in their sleep, they work with JD, The Dream, Swizz Beats, Darkchild etc, yet you present it like Timbaland and The Neptunes were carbon copies of those producers, while they are very different. Same for The Sweet Escape comparisons, all the tracks Pharrell did on it are ENTIRELY different fro what he did on HC, I actually listened to it a while ago and was SHOCKED how lame stuff he did there in the form of "Wind It Up" or "Orange County Girl". HC also has nothing as minimalist as "Yummy" either.

[SkyHigh76]

Ugh its so boring how people are constantly trying to split Madonnas work into little Genres and suggest which she should stick to for her next album. I mean the power of Madonna is that she can turn her hand to anything and her creativity allows her to excel in all kinds of different work.

I agree!! I don't see why people must always compare one album to another.Madonna has never made the same album twice,that's what so great about her.She's always moving ahead,working with different collaborators,trying new beats and sounds.I love 'Confessions' but I wouldn't want her to make 'Confessions Part 2'.I was thrilled that she did something different and went in another direction.'Hard Candy' is fun,danceable and it gave her one of the biggest hits of her career ("4 Minutes").

Someone mentioned Mariah,Mary J.Blige and other R&B singers.No disrespect to those ladies,but they basically make the same album over and over.They use the same formula on every album.Let's at least give Madonna credit for trying new things on each album.Look at her last three albums: American Life,COADF,and Hard Candy.Three distinctive albums that don't sound alike at all.Can you say the same about Mariah's last three albums? Janet's last three albums? Mary J.Blige's last three albums?

[SkyHigh76]

I don't think she was trying to make an R&B album, which is exactly why it is indeed not a good R&B album. It seems she went in with the intent on making a current sounding R&B influenced pop album....which are the same intentions she had soundwise for BS...... and that's what she did. It seems some fans simply have a bias against M doing stuff that is current and popular. If you LOVE Loose and FS/LS and claim that HC is a ripoff of those, then you should find at least SOME redeeming quality in HC and not consider it "beneath" M.

Of course you are going to hear similarites in Nelly, Justin and Madonna's albums because they were all done with the same producers in the same era and she specifically wanted that sound. But really what specific JT, Nelly, Gwen, MC song is She's Not Me ripping off? Or how about Incredible?? BGO? Dance 2night? As I said obviously there is similarity in production. But these supposed blatant ripoffs I'm just not hearing. DWRY and SL perhaps production wise but I can't match any of the others with the song that they are supposed to be ripping off.

I agree.I wouldn't really call HC an "R&B/urban" album at all.These days,Timbaland and Pharrell are as "pop" as you can get.I consider most of their music to be more pop/dance than anything else.And I hate when people complain that tracks on HC sound like songs on Nelly and Justin's albums.Was anyone truly expecting Timbaland to create a custom-made sound for Madonna?? I don't think that ANY producer can do that.I also don't think that's what Madonna wanted.She has said that Justin's and Timbaland's albums were her favorite albums of recent years.She WANTED that sound for her own album.

[Guest Danny86]

I agree.I wouldn't really call HC an "R&B/urban" album at all.These days,Timbaland and Pharrell are as "pop" as you can get.I consider most of their music to be more pop/dance than anything else.And I hate when people complain that tracks on HC sound like songs on Nelly and Justin's albums.Was anyone truly expecting Timbaland to create a custom-made sound for Madonna?? I don't think that ANY producer can do that.I also don't think that's what Madonna wanted.She has said that Justin's and Timbaland's albums were her favorite albums of recent years.She WANTED that sound for her own album.

I don't know who started this theory, but fans generally think that Madonna gets some kinda custom-made sound from the people she works with, failing to realize that she chooses them because she hears their signature sound and decides to use that on her own records. Of course that comes out more obvious when it's somebody like Timbaland, but it was the same with Mirwais, really. Madonna herself said that Guy Oseary showed her Mirwais' demos to ask if he was good enough to be signed to Maverick and that's when she decided she wanted THAT sound for Music.

But it's also wrong to say that Madonna was basically singing over the music of Loose or FS/LS, I can see the relation to "Promiscuous" and Justin's title track with the heavy beats used on "4 Minutes", but Madonna didn't even make a song resembling "SexyBack" or "My Love", the biggest hits of Justin, neither she copied "Summer Love" or "Until The End Of Time". The same way when she used Mariah's producer Dave Hall but "Human Nature" was closer to TLC than "Dreamlover" or "Fantasy".

[SkyHigh76]

Right, Madonna's previous music has never sounded similar to what others have had out during the same period. Songs like "Vogue," "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper" were sonically unique, and weren't at all akin to other music at the time by...say...Cathy Dennis, Taylor Dayne, KWS, or Blackbox.

Very good point.I remember when Confessions was released,many people were saying that it sounds like a Kylie album.I think it's a stretch to imply that everything Madonna does is 100% original and unique.I also don't think that she needs to re-invent the wheel everytime she does a new album.Can't see why so many fans expect her to.

[SkyHigh76]

I don't know who started this theory, but fans generally think that Madonna gets some kinda custom-made sound from the people she works with, failing to realize that she chooses them because she hears their signature sound and decides to use that on her own records. Of course that comes out more obvious when it's somebody like Timbaland, but it was the same with Mirwais, really. Madonna herself said that Guy Oseary showed her Mirwais' demos to ask if he was good enough to be signed to Maverick and that's when she decided she wanted THAT sound for Music.

But it's also wrong to say that Madonna was basically singing over the music of Loose or FS/LS, I can see the relation to "Promiscuous" and Justin's title track with the heavy beats used on "4 Minutes", but Madonna didn't even make a song resembling "SexyBack" or "My Love", the biggest hits of Justin, neither she copied "Summer Love" or "Until The End Of Time". The same way when she used Mariah's producer Dave Hall but "Human Nature" was closer to TLC than "Dreamlover" or "Fantasy".

Agree with everything you said.No producer is capable of creating a custom-made sound strictly for Madonna.When I listen to Hard Candy,I'm too busy enjoying the songs.I'm not thinking about Nelly,Mariah and the others.I'm dancing my ass of to "Heartbeat",or singing along to "Miles Away",or blasting "Give It To Me" at full volume.I enjoy the album for what it is.

[Carta]

people keep saying this, but how many of you have any other r&b albums from the past 5 years in your collection? If HC sounds like old school Madonna, then I guess so does Mariah's E=MC2, Rihanna's Good Girl Gone Bad and Beyonce's B. Day, Janet's Damita Jo and Nelly's Loose and about sixty other female r&b/pop albums that have come out since 2004 that have a little pop, a little hip hop, a little old-school and a little ballads. There is nothing on Hard Candy that wasn't done (better may I add) on any of the albums I listed, but you probably never listened to them because they're successful female artists who aren't Madonna, right?

We get it - you loathe HC and think anyone who actually likes it is a mindless lamb

Baaaaaaaaaa!

[Carta]

I notice people are mentioning Donna Summer here and on another thread. IMO, she is the perfect analogy to Hard Candy. HC for Madonna is similar to Another Place And Time, the album Donna did with SAW in 1989. I actually like APAT more than the bulk of the music SAW released if only for the fact it was Donna Summer, but the album was basically a faceless SAW album with Donna's voice and likeness on the album cover. It did boast some good songs for her, but it is probably her most faceless recording and was done to once again be relevant by working with the top producers of the era... sound familiar?

You're forgetting, though, that Madonna co-wrote and co-produced HC. Donna may have contributed some lyrical ideas to her work with SAW, but she certainly didn't have a hand in producing any of it.

[Guest]

I actually think that album would be better than Hard Candy.

I dunno, I don't mind the r&b/guest-stars thing when it's Mariah, Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, Rihanna, etc...., but Madonna is supposed to be head and shoulders over the competition and she's always done her own thing with a "fuck the masses" thing, yet IMO Hard Candy is an album that any of the aforementioned artists could've done just as well. She's always been so individualistic and different from her contemporaries. The reason people are still disappointed in the album is because Madonna can do so much better than an album Mariah can do in her sleep.

I think Warner at least expected Hard Candy to sell a million. If COADF could do it, why not HC with the biggest single since "Music" and with several A-list producers?

Sorry to say but yes Madonna has always had an edge but COADF has alot in common with Kylie's work before it (e.g Fever, LY) and even Dannii's Neon Nights. Also COADF was more aimed at Europe and Asia than the US, and tons of artists were doing elctro-disco before 05 (but COADF is still a great album )

[SkyHigh76]

I notice people are mentioning Donna Summer here and on another thread. IMO, she is the perfect analogy to Hard Candy. HC for Madonna is similar to Another Place And Time, the album Donna did with SAW in 1989. I actually like APAT more than the bulk of the music SAW released if only for the fact it was Donna Summer, but the album was basically a faceless SAW album with Donna's voice and likeness on the album cover. It did boast some good songs for her, but it is probably her most faceless recording and was done to once again be relevant by working with the top producers of the era... sound familiar?

You are forgetting that,by the late 80s,Donna's career was in serious trouble.She was dropped by Geffen after a string of flop albums.In 1987,she had to cancel a planned tour because nobody was interested.Working with SAW breathed new life into her career.It brought her back into the Top 10 ("This Time I Know It's For Real") and was well-received by the public.

The point I'm making is,artists sometimes do things like this because they HAVE to.They gotta survive somehow.You claim that APAT is a faceless SAW album,but where were you when she released All Systems Go and Cats Without Claws? Those albums flopped big time.Nobody bought those.

The situation with Madonna is much different.Her career has always been in fine shape.But as was the case with Donna,it was nice to see her reach the Top 10 with a big hit ("4 Minutes").That's her most successful single in America since "Vogue".Despite what many artists say,I truly believe that they're always trying to get a "hit".