New Madonna Song?

[Guest Pud Whacker]

glow on etips!!!

[boy skeffington]

This thread is nauseating. Madonna's fans waxing intelligence and musical snobbery is so nauseating.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

This thread is nauseating. Madonna's fans waxing intelligence and musical snobbery is so nauseating.

[Guest erotico]

I don’t like Lil’ Wayne. I think he’s weird…overrated…and comes off like a buggy cartoon character. I haven’t liked anything he’s done, including that silly “Lollipop” song. That’s just my personal opinion of him. However…

I’m still not totally understanding the tone of indignation being displayed here. From what we know so far, the new song seems to be slated to be on his album…not hers. If this is true, then this probably means that he reached out to her, and that no Madonna fan really even has to tolerate it if they care not. Just don’t buy his album or download the song. Should she have turned him down just for the sake of being superior and above it all?

I don’t see this as being like working with Britney at all. Unlike Britney, Lil’ Wayne hasn’t made a career of playing off hackneyed comparisons to her and he doesn’t idol worship her in the media (while she blushes with an obviously stroked ego.) This collaboration also isn’t attempting to latch onto the hype of a VMA spectacle at a time when both of them could use fast hit. I assume if they did work together, it was done out of mutual curiosity/esteem; not some compulsive need for her to stay thirty-five. So why not? I don’t remember there being this much ire when it was announced that she was recording a duet Ricky Martin after his Grammy spectacle made him the toast of the town.

I’ll be honest, the level of cynicism Madonna has been garnering these past two years because she dared to lightly explore the waters of ‘urban’ music, at times, comes off as very…suspect. I wonder if it really makes that much of a difference to some if Madonna worked with Lil’ Wayne or The Roots…Timbaland or John Legend. Hell, Kanyé is probably the ‘Madonna’ of his genre and at times tries to push the envelope…and yet there were those who had a problem with her working with him, and still resent it. Some—not all, but definitely some—folks just have a not so inconspicuous infuriation with their pure pop Madonna messing with “that kind” of music.

Some fans like to think that Madonna exists on her own island and have an oddly snobbish perception who she is and what she’s [not] supposed to be. How and why some think that the woman whose first top five hit had a hook that went “starlight, star bright, first star I see tonight…” and another bouncy hit a few years ago that featured the lyrics: “ring, ring, ring goes the telephone…” is some kind of Avant-Grade ambassador to the mainstream is just baffling to me. Oddly enough, though, that exceedingly haughty outlook willingly embraces Abba samples and the thought of her again collaborating with a producer she worked with twenty years ago on fluffy songs like “Who’s That Girl” and “Cherish,” but nothing overtly American…nothing apparently commercially-friendly…and for God sakes, nothing “black.”

A BIG X YOUR COMMENT!!!

[Guest ursaminorjim]

This thread is nauseating. Madonna's fans waxing intelligence and musical snobbery is so nauseating.

Kisses.

[Dickens]

Should she have turned him [Lil' Wayne] down just for the sake of being superior and above it all?

Yes.

[moe]

^ no

Where the fuck is the song? Its almost midnight!!

[Ai Papi Si.]

Yeah I don't know that anyone on here has given any sort of hint that they don't want Madonna to work with black people (if that is indeed what was being insinuated in your post Etips). I think people just were worried that Madonna was going to become that embarassing 50 year old mom who hits on her daughter's boyfriend. Ultimately I think a lot of fans were scared of Madonna playing out her mid-life crisis in a very desperate and embarassing way, and working with the practically pubescent Justin Timberlake and the ever-obvious Timbaland was a part of that. Can you blame them? Before American Life, Madonna used to say things like "oh boy, I'm going to have to share radio airplay with Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera." A year or two later, she was chasing them around like a soccer mom after her album bombed. Then she started wearing leotards, making videos like "Sorry," and calling up Timabaland. Like I said, it's not really that hard to understand why people were up in arms about it. The people who weren't up in arms about it seemed to be those who really had an investment in Madonna's chart success and applauded the idea. But for those who weren't interested in that, it was different. When rumors of Madonna and Lil Wayne swirl around, I don't think of it as Madonna "trying new things," I think of it as yet another attempt of hers to crack the youth market who has done nothing but laugh and wave her off for the last six years. And yes, it would have been way different if she had called up The Roots or Common. What 16 year old listens to them? Then you have Justin Timberlake, Timbaland, and Lil Wayne - two men that every 16 year old probably has on their iPod. What we used to call "crafty business" now just looks like a desperate middle aged woman. That is, if any of this is even true.

[Lucky guy]

What's your excuse the rest of the time? I've never seen even ONE positive post by you. I admit i've not been on here long, but it seems as if you really dislike Madonna. Not being bitchy, just pointing it out(the obvious).

But then what am I supposed to post about? I am aware that my posts here have been overwhemingly negative of late, but I don't know how I'm supposed to fill the quota. I love Madonna's back catalogue but there's only so many times I can get excited over 'Madonna's most underappreciated ballad/album/outfit' threads, no offence to the guys that do enjoy those discussions. I am more interested in the here and now. And if I think something in the here and now is great, then I will be the first to post about it. For instance, I think her face is looking very beautiful lately, and I have said so on numerous occasions. And you can believe I mean it because I am one of the loudest critics of stuff she has done to it in the past.

I am aware that long term it would be rather ridiculous to remain on a forum dedicated to someone whose current music you don't enjoy. So of course if I carry on thinking this way I will shuffle off eventually, but we are only one album and a tour in, and I keep hoping that when she settles from the divorce and all the other shit that is going on in her life she will produce stuff which I love again.

[Dickens]

And let the haters want some irrelevant Pat Leonard re-hash or, even worse, some Pet Shop Boys produced album with watered down Kylie Minogue-style british synth-pop shit! LOL! Girls, please!

Frankly, that's what I would prefer--certainly far more than Lil' Wayne.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Yeah I don't know that anyone on here has given any sort of hint that they don't want Madonna to work with black people (if that is indeed what was being insinuated in your post Etips). I think people just were worried that Madonna was going to become that embarassing 50 year old mom who hits on her daughter's boyfriend. Ultimately I think a lot of fans were scared of Madonna playing out her mid-life crisis in a very desperate and embarassing way, and working with the practically pubescent Justin Timberlake and the ever-obvious Timbaland was a part of that. Can you blame them? Before American Life, Madonna used to say things like "oh boy, I'm going to have to share radio airplay with Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera." A year or two later, she was chasing them around like a soccer mom after her album bombed. Then she started wearing leotards, making videos like "Sorry," and calling up Timabaland. Like I said, it's not really that hard to understand why people were up in arms about it. The people who weren't up in arms about it seemed to be those who really had an investment in Madonna's chart success and applauded the idea. But for those who weren't interested in that, it was different. When rumors of Madonna and Lil Wayne swirl around, I don't think of it as Madonna "trying new things," I think of it as yet another attempt of hers to crack the youth market who has done nothing but laugh and wave her off for the last six years. And yes, it would have been way different if she had called up The Roots or Common. What 16 year old listens to them? Then you have Justin Timberlake, Timbaland, and Lil Wayne - two men that every 16 year old probably has on their iPod. What we used to call "crafty business" now just looks like a desperate middle aged woman. That is, if any of this is even true.

why is it when tina turner or cher or any other popular female singer older than madonna works with someone popular, it doesnt garner this disgust even though they had to share the airwaves with madonna, britney and the aforementioned?

and as for her saying anything at any time, and this goes for anyone but theres an age old adage...its a womans prerogative to change her mind.

[MaddysMuff]

I think her music has gotten broader in scope over the past twenty or so years, but it's also lost some of its richness. Although if we're going purely by songs? I'd say there are far more great songs in the second half of her career than there are in the first. And while a lot of her more experimental moments don't always work, at least she still tries.

I'm totally with you on this.

[ADUSTIO]

I am not sure if that woman is madonna.

[MaddysMuff]

I don’t like Lil’ Wayne. I think he’s weird…overrated…and comes off like a buggy cartoon character. I haven’t liked anything he’s done, including that silly “Lollipop” song. That’s just my personal opinion of him. However…

I’m still not totally understanding the tone of indignation being displayed here. From what we know so far, the new song seems to be slated to be on his album…not hers. If this is true, then this probably means that he reached out to her, and that no Madonna fan really even has to tolerate it if they care not. Just don’t buy his album or download the song. Should she have turned him down just for the sake of being superior and above it all?

I don’t see this as being like working with Britney at all. Unlike Britney, Lil’ Wayne hasn’t made a career of playing off hackneyed comparisons to her and he doesn’t idol worship her in the media (while she blushes with an obviously stroked ego.) This collaboration also isn’t attempting to latch onto the hype of a VMA spectacle at a time when both of them could use fast hit. I assume if they did work together, it was done out of mutual curiosity/esteem; not some compulsive need for her to stay thirty-five. So why not? I don’t remember there being this much ire when it was announced that she was recording a duet Ricky Martin after his Grammy spectacle made him the toast of the town.

I’ll be honest, the level of cynicism Madonna has been garnering from her fans these past two years because she dared to lightly explore the waters of ‘urban’ music, at times, comes off as very…suspect. I wonder if it really makes that much of a difference to some if Madonna worked with Lil’ Wayne or The Roots…Timbaland or John Legend. Hell, Kanyé is probably the ‘Madonna’ of his genre and at times tries to push the envelope…and yet there were those who had a problem with her working with him, and still resent it. Some—not all, but definitely some—folks just have a not so inconspicuous infuriation with their pure pop Madonna messing with “that kind” of music.

Some fans like to think that Madonna exists on her own island and have an oddly snobbish perception who she is and what she’s [not] supposed to be. How and why some think that the woman whose first top five hit had a hook that went “starlight, star bright, first star I see tonight…” and another bouncy hit a few years ago that featured the lyrics: “ring, ring, ring goes the telephone…” is some kind of Avant-Grade ambassador to the mainstream is just baffling to me. Oddly enough, though, that exceedingly haughty outlook willingly embraces Abba samples and the thought of her again collaborating with a producer she worked with twenty years ago on fluffy fare like “Who’s That Girl” and “Cherish,” but nothing overtly American…nothing apparently commercially-friendly…and for God sakes, nothing “black.”

Her working on "black" music is not a problem. I think that is blown out of proportion. She can do R&B incredibly well. I think "Bedtime Stories" is one of her best albums. "Hard Candy" just didn't do it... at least for me.

Truthfully, I'd rather she not work with these mainstream artists who have hit after hit, because I feel Madonna is unique, and for her to have played out beats backing that voice, makes no sense to me. Yeah, I'm part of that crowd. I recognize Madonna is mainstream, but what has made her relevant is remaining current in a different way than most.

She lost the plot with the last album.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Her working on "black" music is not a problem. I think that is blown out of proportion. She can do R&B incredibly well. I think "Bedtime Stories" is one of her best albums. "Hard Candy" just didn't do it... at least for me.

Truthfully, I'd rather she not work with these mainstream artists who have hit after hit, because I feel Madonna is unique, and for her to have played out beats backing that voice, makes no sense to me. Yeah, I'm part of that crowd. I recognize Madonna is mainstream, but what has made her relevant is remaining current in a different way than most.

She lost the plot with the last album.

and for me and maybe a few others, she got her initial groove back. it was missing in Britain for many years.

so, it really goes to show that different fans like different things. so stick around and maybe she will shoot what you like out again.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

i would just like to add to my above post, i fell in love with a sexy, fun weird girl who did R&B style music. what people want to call those albums now, whatever. what it was then is what i just called it.

[ADUSTIO]

and for me and maybe a few others, she got her initial groove back. it was missing in Britain for many years. so, it really goes to show that different fans like different things. so stick around and maybe she will shoot what you like out again.

yes I LOVE HARD CANDY! :vanitybonet:

[ADUSTIO]

i would just like to add to my above post, i fell in love with a sexy, fun weird girl who did R&B style music. what people want to call those albums now, whatever. what it was then is what i just called it.

PREACH IT puddy.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

yes I LOVE HARD CANDY! :vanitybonet:

of course. anyone that loves the first two albums - complete - that goes for shoo be doo and pretender...loves hard candy.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

PREACH IT puddy.

i didnt fall in love with a bjorkle wanna!!!

[ADUSTIO]

of course. anyone that loves the first two albums - complete - that goes for shoo be doo and pretender...loves hard candy.

yes, just the way I love my hole.

[ThinkOfMe]

and for me and maybe a few others, she got her initial groove back.

Thats exactly how I feel, for me I esp feel it with She's not me, Incredible, and Give it 2 Me. For others they prefer Confessions, which I love, but HC to me has the same vibe as the first album.

Anyways I hope this leaks in HQ soon.

[peter]

Don't you know anything?! It's not "My Sex Is a Killa!" -- It's "My Love Is a Revolver!" And it was written by Madonna for Guy Ritchie's REVOLVER, but he didn't want it for the theme song. And now she's releasing it just to spite him.

BTW, this was supposed to be a joke (even if it wasn't a funny one). Hope you didn't take offense.

I don’t like Lil’ Wayne. I think he’s weird…overrated…and comes off like a buggy cartoon character. I haven’t liked anything he’s done, including that silly “Lollipop” song. That’s just my personal opinion of him. However…

Some fans like to think that Madonna exists on her own island and have an oddly snobbish perception who she is and what she’s [not] supposed to be. How and why some think that the woman whose first top five hit had a hook that went “starlight, star bright, first star I see tonight…” and another bouncy hit a few years ago that featured the lyrics: “ring, ring, ring goes the telephone…” is some kind of Avant-Grade ambassador to the mainstream is just baffling to me. Oddly enough, though, that exceedingly haughty outlook willingly embraces Abba samples and the thought of her again collaborating with a producer she worked with twenty years ago on fluffy fare like “Who’s That Girl” and “Cherish,” but nothing overtly American…nothing apparently commercially-friendly…and for God sakes, nothing “black.”

I don't think anyone (who has ever liked Madonna's music) could say that Madonna ought not work with a black musician/producer or make 'black' music. What did Madonna say to Timbaland? Something about making 'black' music when he was in diapers or before he was born or something like that? I don't know if it's urban legend or what (no pun intended on "urban") because I myself was pretty young in 1983, but her early stuff was always considered to be non-white music (and the stories about not putting her face on her single covers to cover up the fact that she was white, etc.)

I can see what you're saying -- I'm not saying you're wrong to point out that it's possible there could be some of that fueling some people's thoughts (whether admittedly or subconsciously). I'm just saying I'd be quick to point out that would antithetical to a majority of Madonna's career. And if it wasn't "black" music, it was infused with Latin rhythms.

I guess I also have to ask what's "American" music, anyway? Aren't we supposed to be a melting pot? Urban/hip-hop/rap isn't the ONLY acceptable genre of America (although, it may very well be the dominant flavor).

Perhaps some fans also get nervous about Madonna doing anything in this genre because the LAST time she rapped ("American Life") she was roundly criticized and scoffed by many. (Forgetting her high point of 'spoken word' art -- the rap of "Vogue," i.e., "Greta Garbo, and Monroe..." -- they were quick to declaim her and say, "Madonna can't rap!") So if we're a little jumpy, I think that's understandable.

I'm more concerned with the 'sex' resurgence. First "Incredible" and now "my sex is a killa..." Hmm... It's not that I'm a TOTAL prude (though, I am a bit, I admit)... but there's a difference between being sexy and sensual, and just throwing it all out there. I think Madonna will fare better when she chooses the classy route with the sexy-ness as she ages. I know some people will find that sexist/ageist to say. I'm not saying she shouldn't wear leotards, really! I didn't mind them so much. (Took me a couple days to get used to the cut in the back of the leotard in the "Hung Up" video, but now I think it's fantastic.) I'm not saying she shouldn't have a sexuality or that she can't present it in any way, shape, or form. I just worry that the 'cougar' charges will become louder and more ferocious -- and that she will seem predatory and (worse) repellant.

Though, I don't know why *I* worry. She probably doesn't. And I don't want to seem like I have a closed mind. Because I used to think "Erotica" was too direct and therefore not very sexy. But I love "Erotica" now (in its many different mixes and versions), so... I'll get over it.

I have no idea if other people think that way, but I certainly don't. I was just skeptical of where Timbaland and Pharrell would take her, whether they would offer her the sort of commitment that she deserves, and push THEMselves to the limit of their talents for her. And I don't think they did, not through any fault on their part, just because Madonna wasn't the biggest piece in their jigsaw at that time, and who knows, maybe she didn't give enough and that was why Hard Candy sounds so lacklustre. I love this production by Pharrell which someone introduced me to on here:

If HC had some of this freshness I would have liked it alot more. I don't care HOW Madonna creates that magic, just that it happens.

Careful what you wish for. Remember, Madonna *did* different with Pharrell. We got "Hey You." (And listening to the demo of "Beat Goes On" you hear her saying she wants to do 'something different' and 'change things up.' So, I guess they tried?)

But thanks for sharing this link -- I had never seen/heard that.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Thats exactly how I feel, for me I esp feel it with She's not me, Incredible, and Give it 2 Me. For others they prefer Confessions, which I love, but HC to me has the same vibe as the first album.

Anyways I hope this leaks in HQ soon.

and your choices from hard candy and your name and avatar just prove my point.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

yes, just the way I love my hole.

[ThinkOfMe]

and your choices from hard candy and your name and avatar just prove my point.

It is and always will be about the first album.

[Guest jamesshot]

why is it when tina turner or cher or any other popular female singer older than madonna works with someone popular, it doesnt garner this disgust even though they had to share the airwaves with madonna, britney and the aforementioned?

and as for her saying anything at any time, and this goes for anyone but theres an age old adage...its a womans prerogative to change her mind.

Thank you! In any business, it makes sense. You adapt and you try to work with the best/brightest/hot. It is not very hard to understand. Everyone does it, to an extent. You cited great examples. This doesnt apply to just the music industry. Actors do it all the time. They work with who is the lastest hot actor/actress/director/producer/writer. Big fucking whoop.

I think, however, the point being made about Madonna is she has gone about this badly since AL. I would agree on that.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

It is and always will be about the first album.

always. the first album is a love affair. there werent, oh, i dont like think of me and i know it. oh no, baby - it was a full on fuck fest love affair.

[Brian John]

I wonder if it really makes that much of a difference to some if Madonna worked with Lil’ Wayne or The Roots…Timbaland or John Legend. Hell, Kanyé is probably the ‘Madonna’ of his genre and at times tries to push the envelope…and yet there were those who had a problem with her working with him, and still resent it. Some—not all, but definitely some—folks just have a not so inconspicuous infuriation with their pure pop Madonna messing with “that kind” of music.

Now see, I'd be thrilled if she worked with John Legend. Lil Wayne? Not so much.

I'm really in favor of Madonna working with anyone, production-wise, if the collaboration creates something exciting. The biggest problem I have with her working with rappers is basically the same problem I always have with a rap in the middle of any pop song -- they rarely ever sound organic to the track, or add anything of value.

Take "The Beat Goes On," for example. The theme of the lyrics is to not just sit there on the sidelines and let life pass you by -- but to instead get out there and LIVE. Then here comes Kayne's rap, and he's talking about himself and using his fame to bed someone. What the hell does that have to do with the rest of the song?!? That incongruity, to me, makes it feel tacky and tacked on -- like his presence was nothing more than "stunt casting."

I don't think I'm a music snob, but maybe I am. I'm certainly not opposed to music being fun -- we all need to lighten up and just cut loose sometimes. I guess I just prefer it when all of the parts of a song work in tandem with each other.

[Guest jamesshot]

Now see, I'd be thrilled if she worked with John Legend. Lil Wayne? Not so much.

I'm really in favor of Madonna working with anyone, production-wise, if the collaboration creates something exciting and entertaining. The biggest problem I have with her working with rappers is basically the same problem I always have with a rap in the middle of any pop song -- they rarely ever sound organic to the track, or add anything of value.

Take "The Beat Goes On," for example. The theme of the lyrics is to not just sit there on the sidelines and let life pass you by -- but to instead get out there and LIVE. Then here comes Kayne's rap, and he's talking about himself and using his fame to bed someone. What the hell does that have to do with the rest of the song?!? That incongruity, to me, makes it feel tacky and tacked on -- like his presence was nothing more than "stunt casting."

I don't think I'm a music snob, but maybe I am. I'm certainly not opposed to music being fun -- we all need to lighten up and just cut loose sometimes. I guess I just prefer it when all of the parts of a song work in tandem with each other.

Well said.