Jump to content

Pet Shop Boys were to produce for Hard Candy


Recommended Posts

This is when your argument becomes especially irritating. People could make just as much fun of us for liking Madonna, just to let you know.

I like Britney myself. For totally different reasons from Madonna. I also like NIN. For totally different reasons from Madonna. What does ANY of that have to do with this argument? You could insert anyone's name in place of Britney and say "ugh, you like them, how can you say anything about this album?" No one's trying to say that their taste in music is better than yours. I think people are more curious about why there's so much animosity when the subject of this album is brought up - especially from you guys's end!

I was just using that as an example and trust me I do realize that "real music" fans probably lump Madonna in with the other whores. Are they right? Is Madonna essentially a decent writer without any REAL musical talent? What makes them wrong? That's a debate that's worth debating, they could come up with a good argument. Not that I agree with it, I think "music" is broader than just organic instruments. However screaming "flop flop flop" for over a year about an album that wasn't just because you don't like it, does not = FLOP. There is no argument. We could argue about how each of perceive the quality to be for the rest of our lives. The fact remains though, it wasn't detrimental to her career, it was a hit and people liked it or it would've had the same fate as AL.....which the general consensus amongst the public and many diehards was it simply wasn't that good. And it reflected in the sales, reviews and endurance of that album on WW charts. Why I have to make this so black and white for people to grasp I don't understand.

All I've done in this thread is say the facts, I don't think much of my actual opinion of the music has come up much in this thread. I'm curious why you label the album a flop on the basis you don't like it. Stats aren't an indicator of quality but they are a barometer of success for an album. HC wasn't a flop yet you guys scream she flopped. She didn't. That's all I'm saying. That's all I've ever been saying.

I think Circus is subpar to Blackout. So if I run around and scream "flop flop flop" does that REALLY make it a flop? Or does it mean *I* just don't care for it as much as Blackout? After all, thus far it's "only" sold a few hundred thousand more copies WW than her "flop" Blackout and I actually think reviews for Blackout were better (or about equal) than they were for Circus. But because (as always) her people and MTV decided to orchestrate her "big comeback" early, screaming since she won her fake moonmen last August "this IS a comeback! This IS a comeback" then it's seen as just that....A HUGE COMEBACK. When in reality Blackout was never a major flop anyways. It's just funny and hypocritical to me that's why I use Britney as an example. Womanizer wasn't as big WW as 4M (close...but not quite).....Circus, while much bigger than GI2M in the states, WW it's about the same sized hit as GI2M based on chart stats. Circus the album thus far hasn't done much better than HC sales wise (both are in the neighborhood of 3.5 milliion) WW yet Circus is labeled as a big hit and HC is labeled a flop. Simply because Britney fans are grateful for ANYTHING she gives them no matter what the quality, yet Madonna's diehards expect Songs In The Key Of Life or ROL everytime she puts out an album. What gives?

It's ridiculous anytime anybody says remotely critical of Britney her fans here fly off the edge and say "well we don't expect that (greatness?) from Britney. She's just her. I like her for other reasons" Well MADONNA is just MADONNA and as you all should know she ebbs, flows and comes and goes and does what the fuck ever she wants to do. You, I or any fan will probably never LOVE everything she does, that's just how it goes with someone like her who doesn't stick with one thing musically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ursaminorjim
Right, and R.E.M.'s Around The Sun is the greatest piece of work they've ever done. :lmao:

Hardly. In fact, it was easily their worst since Automatic For the People. But Accelerate more than made up for it.

As for Madonna's aughts output, Music is still pretty damned good (although a handful of tracks haven't aged very well), and a third of Confessions is absolutely fantastic. But for me, Hard Candy is the only one I can listen to front to back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I seriously fail to see where HC was this huge blockbuster. 700k in the US still isn't that impressive even in this day and age, especially considering it failed to sell half what her previous album did with zero airplay. IMO, that makes it just a step above American Life in terms of success.

There is no reason why Give It 2 Me wasn't a Don't Tell Me in regards of success next to 4 Minutes' Music. 4M should've been like Moo's We Belong Together and become a catalyst to a career renaissance (all of those flop singles off K=FC2 got more airplay than any Madonna single in the past 5 years barring 4 Minutes) and not just some one-off comeback hit like Believe was to Cher.

HC wasn't a huge blockbuster. It was simply a hit album for her. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think she's had a true blockbuster since True Blue in the US. NONE of her albums from LAP on were the biggest sellers of the year in the US as the ones prior to it were. Madonna's US blockbuster days of sales in the US have loooong passed. Even Music's 3 million was a far cry from the 10 million+ sales that the "hot" stars like Britney, N'Sync and Eminem were selling at the time, yet we didn't run around screaming flop about that. Music had 2 major hit songs on it yet it could "only" shift 3 million, 1 million less than ROL which had one bonafide US radio smash in Frozen. When Music came out, album sales were stronger, she was getting radio airplay than she had in ages, so is it a reflection of the quality that it "only" shifted 3 million when it should've done more than ROL all things considered?

Madonna has never really went anywhere to have to do a Cher like comeback. She's had top ten songs every few years in the US. Cher on the hand would go YEARS without having hit songs despite releasing music. Madonna has never had to deal with that really. Even AL had DAD on it....thankfully! lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hard Candy is totally shit. The only songs that are decent are Give It 2 Me, Miles Away and Shes Not Me. I don't even remember the rest of the album. Heartbeat is the most pathetic, useless stupid song Madonna has written in years. Watching Madonna perform it on Sticky And Sweet made me shudder and shake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heartbeat's intro is pretty epic. I like it. Until *that* part, that is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they should have done some stuff on Confessions. By Hard Candy it was probably too late really, both because of the chosen production style of Hard Candy and because I think they'd have struggled to make something out of Madonna's terrible post-accident voice. Maybe they will work together some time in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the PSB sound is quite different to the COADF - true they are both dance music but the PSB sound is just too camp.

I prefer Hard Candy to Ray of Light. I think ROL just drowns in Orbit's production and the last half of the album is just dull.

It would have been interesting to see what the PSBs could have done with one track but I do think they are a one trick pony and would have just produced a COADF Lite version.

All her albums recently have had very dominant production and I don't think the songs are any better for it. Timbaland, Orbit, Mirwais have all had strong sounds but look at her big, classic hits - they were just good pop songs not dominated by a sound.

I wish she would just go back to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Madonna has EVERY chance of having a top 10 hit on her own. We saw that with Hung Up back in 2005. Digital sales work in Madonna's favour and if she releases a good pop song - theres no eason why it wont spend at least 1 week on the top 10. I would not be surprised if a solo Madonna dance song sells 2.5 million with average airplay.

Although the fact that it got a lot of airpla yand became a mega hit in the USA was purely because of the JT/Timberland connection

Look, we can debate this and go back and forth for hours. I believe 4M was a quick and easy hit to get Madonna one more US hit that she wasn't going to get on her own, but in the long run, it didn't attract a new generation of fans the way ROL did, but just attracted some Justin fans to download Madonna for one song, and nothing more. You can feel the other way, I just think that it's a shame the success of that song didn't transcend into bigger sales and more success for subsequent singles instead of being this one-off success story when it's the least Madonna sounding song of her career.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its amazing how HC lovers refer to the last 4 albums as gay eurodance records - in fact they are all totally different in sound. I do findthe same problem with HC lovers - they are quick to say she is moving from the gay disco sound.

Theres a lot of gay men into RnB ie Beyonce, Mariah, Janet all have large gay fanbases. There lots of gay RnB clubs in the USA. Outside of the USA so many straight people listen to dance music.

I think you hit the nail on the head! :thumbsup:

After all, no one here started championing Madonna's change in sound until she made Hard Candy and half of her fanbase didn't like it. All of a sudden, Confessions and the 3 albums before it were a "tired" sound, and anyone who liked them more than Hard Candy was just a poof who was stuck in the past. And apparently they all sounded the same too, because anything within the european producer/electro genre sounds totally the same. :rolleyes: To me it just sounds like you guys are finding any old excuse to defend this album, even dismissing the albums she made before it if thats what it means. And I gotta say, for all this R&B talk, it wasn't that much of a genre leap. It was a pop album, a lot like Bedtime Stories and Confessions (which by the same token was hailed as a dance album, but wasn't really). And people still hate it. So that whole "gay men hate R&B, thats why you hate it" theory is a bit meaningless now isn't it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She has onl;y ever made one COADF. Its the only truly uptempo commerical dance album she has made. HC and COADF are more alike than COADF/Music/ROL

uote name='Nightshade' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:32 AM' post='705537']

I'd rather have her trying to challenge herself and turn out albums like American Life and Hard Candy than trying to make COADF over and over every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nothingfails0603
Hardly. In fact, it was easily their worst since Automatic For the People. But Accelerate more than made up for it.

say what!??! I am a moderate REM fan at best, but Automatic For The People is their worst album? WTF... That album is great

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its weird that I would prefer JT and Timberlands last albums over HC. I even think Blackout was better.

Madonna should have worked with SAW in the 80's. Imagine if we get another Timberland prdouced album?

She can make another 50 r&b albums if she wants, i just don't see why she has to SOUND like Timbaland left overs. There are countless r&b producers out there, what about Outkast? Bangladesh?, ect.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nothingfails0603
I think Madonna has EVERY chance of having a top 10 hit on her own. We saw that with Hung Up back in 2005. Digital sales work in Madonna's favour and if she releases a good pop song - theres no eason why it wont spend at least 1 week on the top 10. I would not be surprised if a solo Madonna dance song sells 2.5 million with average airplay.

Although the fact that it got a lot of airpla yand became a mega hit in the USA was purely because of the JT/Timberland connection

I agree, Hung Up proved M has the fanbase that she can still get top 10 hits... I just hate that radio won't touch her unless she works with some boyband member who was TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD when her debut album came out. I loved Justin's last album and wished Timbaland's material for M would've been as good as that and Loose, but Justin is still the hair on Madonna's ass compared to Madonna... she's the queen and she should be benefitting him, not vice versa.

Madonna deserves to have a hit ON HER OWN in her 50's the way Cher had Believe or Tina had I Don't Wanna Fight in the 90's when they were both over 50, they were hits for Tina and Cher, not because of a special hip guest star..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Madonna has EVERY chance of having a top 10 hit on her own. We saw that with Hung Up back in 2005. Digital sales work in Madonna's favour and if she releases a good pop song - theres no eason why it wont spend at least 1 week on the top 10. I would not be surprised if a solo Madonna dance song sells 2.5 million with average airplay.

Although the fact that it got a lot of airpla yand became a mega hit in the USA was purely because of the JT/Timberland connection

Madonna will have heaps more top 10 hits 'on her own' and more number 1's too.

If the repulicans hadnt hijacked the 2000 election, none of this would have ever happened

Now we have CHANGE and we can have Madonna back on the radio where she belongs, thankyou very much Mr President!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ursaminorjim
say what!??! I am a moderate REM fan at best, but Automatic For The People is their worst album? WTF... That album is great

No, Around the Sun is their worst. But for me, Automatic is just one of the more aptly named albums in their catalog. It has a couple major highlights, definitely, but that's when they started getting lazy with the songwriting and heavy on the rehashing. That, Out of Time, Around the Sun and most of Monster are the dregs of their catalog in my book.

We now resume our regularly scheduled programming. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, Kylie had her own Hard Candy

Kylie%20Minogue%20-%20(2003)%20Body%20La

She's so sexy. I loved her as a French Bardot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I will add that I've said on here a few times that I didn't consider Hard Candy a flop at all. It started out pretty well. Once Give It 2 Me dropped it nosedived as expected, but I think that's more an issue of the wrong song and the abandoning of the project more than people disliking it. I've actually noticed that some people who didn't care for Madonna in the last 10 years enjoyed this album, which is cool. I don't think she made a barrage of new fans with this album though, which is what I'm gleaning from some people here. Young fans pop up around EVERY album release. I've been posting on Marge forums since 2002, it's been the same each time, even with American Life. Hell, I was only 16 when that album was released and I loved it.

*fannyfarts away*

I agree with everything you say here. I don't mean to say she made a BARRAGE of new fans, I'm just saying HC was a hit and held it's own. It's just irritating seeing some go on about how it was a flop and a mistake/damaged her career and image.....which is just not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Madonna has EVERY chance of having a top 10 hit on her own. We saw that with Hung Up back in 2005. Digital sales work in Madonna's favour and if she releases a good pop song - theres no eason why it wont spend at least 1 week on the top 10. I would not be surprised if a solo Madonna dance song sells 2.5 million with average airplay.

Although the fact that it got a lot of airpla yand became a mega hit in the USA was purely because of the JT/Timberland connection

Airplay for HU was very lackluster. She might land in the lower half of the top 10 on digital sales alone, but it would only be for a week or so before it plummets. Like it or not, songs NEED airplay for chart longevity which HU had little of. Also it isn't a "fact" that 4M became a mega hit in the US because of the JT/Timbaland connection. I'm sure they HELPED. But that 4M was the first time in forever that Madonna's put out a song that didn't stand it stark contrast in style to what's generally popular on top40 radio probably helped too.

Edited by hesser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tir69
Airplay for HU was very lackluster. She might land in the lower half of the top 10 on digital sales alone, but it would only be for a week or so before it plummets. Like it or not, songs NEED airplay for chart longevity which HU had little of. Also it isn't a "fact" that 4M became a mega hit in the US because of the JT/Timbaland connection. I'm sure they HELPED. But that 4M was the first time in forever that Madonna's put out a song that didn't stand it stark contrast in style to what's generally popular on top40 radio probably helped too.

Hung up was nr 1 for 2 weeks on the digital sales charts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Joey's Hung Up On Madonna

I believe strongly that if Madonna mixed with the PSB, they together could come up with something eclectic and innovative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nothingfails0603
Airplay for HU was very lackluster. She might land in the lower half of the top 10 on digital sales alone, but it would only be for a week or so before it plummets. Like it or not, songs NEED airplay for chart longevity which HU had little of. Also it isn't a "fact" that 4M became a mega hit in the US because of the JT/Timbaland connection. I'm sure they HELPED. But that 4M was the first time in forever that Madonna's put out a song that didn't stand it stark contrast in style to what's generally popular on top40 radio probably helped too.

Justify My Love sounded nothing like what else was out on the radio in 1991, Die Another Day sounded nothing like what else was out on radio in 2002, those two were hits regardless.

I do think Justin was the reason the song was a hit. I mean, he's the one who has the "money line" of the song ("we only got 4 minutes to save the world"). That's the line everyone can sing and Justin sang that part not Madonna. But if anything, it shows that US radio should be ashamed of himself. Justin's good, but he isn't 1/100th Madonna.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hard Candy is totally shit. The only songs that are decent are Give It 2 Me, Miles Away and Shes Not Me. I don't even remember the rest of the album. Heartbeat is the most pathetic, useless stupid song Madonna has written in years. Watching Madonna perform it on Sticky And Sweet made me shudder and shake.

Its a good job you won't be seeing her perform any of HC down under anytime soon then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cant wait for her next album hopefully it'll have several producers on it. (and hopefully an intresting musical direction)

I love HC its a very good album but it suffers from a similar problem that ROL suffers from aswell. Both albums feel less like Madonna and more like their producers

PSB probably woouldnt have suited HC at all but it would have been intresting to hear a collab between them and Madge (Not counting the Sorry remix)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with what nothingfails responded to you.

I may add its not about the style of music but the age of the singer. 4 mins sounded like what was hot on radio 5 years ago but the last 2 years have seen many pop-dance songs. I would even add since COADF was released many of the premier USA pop-rnb stars have released dance songs which have succeeded.

I did nt even notice that JT got to sing the title.

Airplay for HU was very lackluster. She might land in the lower half of the top 10 on digital sales alone, but it would only be for a week or so before it plummets. Like it or not, songs NEED airplay for chart longevity which HU had little of. Also it isn't a "fact" that 4M became a mega hit in the US because of the JT/Timbaland connection. I'm sure they HELPED. But that 4M was the first time in forever that Madonna's put out a song that didn't stand it stark contrast in style to what's generally popular on top40 radio probably helped too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nothingfails0603
I have to agree with what nothingfails responded to you.

I may add its not about the style of music but the age of the singer. 4 mins sounded like what was hot on radio 5 years ago but the last 2 years have seen many pop-dance songs. I would even add since COADF was released many of the premier USA pop-rnb stars have released dance songs which have succeeded.

I agree. I don't see how Give It 2 Me isn't US radio-friendly when Lady GaGa releases the same type of tracks and is pop's newest superstar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...