Pet Shop Boys were to produce for Hard Candy

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I can't believe all the hate spewed for Pet Shop Boys just because they told their side of the story. I mean, seriously.... you really think Pharrell or Justin did a better job than what Neil and Chris could do? Please, PSB are dance legends, they aren't just some little pop tart newcomer spewing shit about Madonna to get attention. We're talking two guys who actually made Liza Minnelli interesting and even helped the dance community embrace Yoko Ono, they gave Dusty Springfield a career boost 20 years after people wrote her off. These guys can do miracles in the studio and I find it funny how fickle fags are that they merely speak their side of the story about their near-collaboration with Madonna, people take it as "dissing" her and rip on them. I still believe HC might've been a stronger album if they'd had two or three tracks on there, in place of Candy Shop, Devil Wouldn't Recognize This Is A Justin Timberlake Song and 4 Minutes, which IMO are three of the worst songs she's ever done.

[Stephen]

I'd probably still listen to hard candy if it were by the pet shop boys. It's a double edged sword. Then we wouldn't of had give it 2 me!

[neutrocks]

I'd probably still listen to hard candy if it were by the pet shop boys. It's a double edged sword. Then we wouldn't of had give it 2 me!

I doubt it would have been even "Hard Candy" or an R&B direction if they were involved. And I don't believe Warners said anything of the sort what direction she was heading when they contacted them.

Whatever the case, no one can really say PSB's involvement would have made the project BETTER. At this point, we will never know that.

I personally like HARD CANDY. It may not be my favorite album by her, but it only proves she's willing to take chances and experiment with either unknowns and popular producers.

[hesser]

I can't believe all the hate spewed for Pet Shop Boys just because they told their side of the story. I mean, seriously.... you really think Pharrell or Justin did a better job than what Neil and Chris could do? Please, PSB are dance legends, they aren't just some little pop tart newcomer spewing shit about Madonna to get attention. We're talking two guys who actually made Liza Minnelli interesting and even helped the dance community embrace Yoko Ono, they gave Dusty Springfield a career boost 20 years after people wrote her off. These guys can do miracles in the studio and I find it funny how fickle fags are that they merely speak their side of the story about their near-collaboration with Madonna, people take it as "dissing" her and rip on them. I still believe HC might've been a stronger album if they'd had two or three tracks on there, in place of Candy Shop, Devil Wouldn't Recognize This Is A Justin Timberlake Song and 4 Minutes, which IMO are three of the worst songs she's ever done.

I'm not a fickle fag. I was never into the Petshop Boys to begin with. I must have missed whatever it is that PSB supposedly did for Liza Minnelli, Yoko Ono (lol) and Dusty Springfield that supposedly went over big. lol Meanwhile I kinda doubt that they would have been able to give Madonna a hit as massive as 4M was.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I'm not a fickle fag. I was never into the Petshop Boys to begin with. I must have missed whatever it is that PSB supposedly did for Liza Minnelli, Yoko Ono (lol) and Dusty Springfield that supposedly went over big. lol Meanwhile I kinda doubt that they would have been able to give Madonna a hit as massive as 4M was.

What Have I Done To Deserve This with Dusty was a massive hit in both the US and UK, their work with Liza gave her a few big UK singles too. Bash Yoko all you want to, give me her music over half of Hard Candy any day. You probably know nothing about her except the long disproven myth that she broke The Beatles up anyways. Chris and Neil were big fans of hers, had her rerecord Walking On Thin Ice and gave her a dance #1 for it, which has since opened the door for several other dance club hits.

True, PSB would've never given her a hit like 4M, but so fucking what? 4M was HORRID and a low for both Madonna and Timberlake, and if anything, I hated the fact that 4M was a huge hit because of Justin while infinately better tracks like Give It 2 Me, Miles Away, Get Together and Sorry couldn't get arrested because they didn't have the input of some guy who was still in diapers when Madonna's first hits were on MTV. Hit doesn't equal quality, I'd rather Madonna have more great "flop" singles than have top 3 hits that sound like Fergie rejects (and I hate Fergie).

[Nightshade]

I think the PSB are ok, but I am happy with Hard Candy the way it is. I am sure if the PSB had done it, it would've sold even less in the U.S. than it already has. I can't see any lead single produced by them getting the huge airplay and hype that "4 Minutes" received.

I do like their "Sorry" remix though. Very clever.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I am sure if the PSB had done it, it would've sold even less in the U.S. than it already has. I can't see any lead single produced by them getting the huge airplay and hype that "4 Minutes" received.

But what good is airplay and hype when everyone whispers that she's using him for a hit, and that it translated to album sales that weren't much bigger than American Life's anyways? IMO, 4 Minutes was meant to serve a purpose in surpassing Elvis' top 10 record that she'd tied with Hung Up, besides that, the song is probably at the all time bottom of the pile for singles.

What good is a hit single if it alienates all the fans and does not draw in the new younger hipper fanbase it was meant to court?

[strictmachine]

LOL at the people trying to turn this into a dig at madonna....i think a madge/psb album would be brilliant, but i think it would be a little early for that. psb definitely up the camp factor dramatically, so maybe in ten years

[hesser]

What Have I Done To Deserve This with Dusty was a massive hit in both the US and UK, their work with Liza gave her a few big UK singles too. Bash Yoko all you want to, give me her music over half of Hard Candy any day. You probably know nothing about her except the long disproven myth that she broke The Beatles up anyways. Chris and Neil were big fans of hers, had her rerecord Walking On Thin Ice and gave her a dance #1 for it, which has since opened the door for several other dance club hits.

True, PSB would've never given her a hit like 4M, but so fucking what? 4M was HORRID and a low for both Madonna and Timberlake, and if anything, I hated the fact that 4M was a huge hit because of Justin while infinately better tracks like Give It 2 Me, Miles Away, Get Together and Sorry couldn't get arrested because they didn't have the input of some guy who was still in diapers when Madonna's first hits were on MTV. Hit doesn't equal quality, I'd rather Madonna have more great "flop" singles than have top 3 hits that sound like Fergie rejects (and I hate Fergie).

Quality shmuality. Your "quality" is my junk & vice versa. "Quality" is subjective, based SOLELY on the OPINION of the person taking it in. Stats aren't. If 3rd rate niche tracks by the woman who broke up the Beatles and Dorothy's Bette Ford Clinic-VIP daughter that somehow managed to become club hits in the UK are the most notable things these guys have on their producing resume then I would probably be less than moved by whatever it was they would have done for Madonna. I'm no fan of Fergie's but based on what little I've heard of Yoko, if i had to choose whose cd to listen to it would be the former! In MY opinion 4M was great! Love it! Never get tired of it. I personally LOVE that it was as huge as it was & is one of the biggest hits of Madonna's career. Wouldnt sacrifice it for ANYTHING that PSP could conjure up.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Quality shmuality. Your "quality" is my junk & vice versa. "Quality" is subjective, based SOLELY on the OPINION of the person taking it in. Stats aren't. If 3rd rate niche tracks by the woman who broke up the Beatles and Dorothy's Bette Ford Clinic-VIP daughter that somehow managed to become club hits in the UK are the most notable things these guys have on their producing resume then I would probably be less than moved by whatever it was they would have done for Madonna. I'm no fan of Fergie's but based on what little I've heard of Yoko, if i had to choose whose cd to listen to it would be the former! In MY opinion 4M was great! Love it! Never get tired of it. I personally LOVE that it was as huge as it was & is one of the biggest hits of Madonna's career. Wouldnt sacrifice it for ANYTHING that PSP could conjure up.

actually the Liza songs weren't just club hits in the UK. Losing My Mind was her first and only UK top 10 single. What Have I Done To Deserve This with Dusty was a #2 US single. People love to bash Yoko because it's the in thing to do, but if Hard Candy was even half as good as Season Of Glass or Rising, I'd still be listening to it daily. HC was a low point in Madonna's career, salvaged only by a decent tour and a couple good tracks. The rest of it is about on par with 20 Y.O. by Janet.

I personally loved FutureSex/LoveSounds so I was excited at the idea of she and Justin working together, then I heard 4 Minutes. It turned off the fans who bought COADF in droves (1.6 million to 700k is a massive drop) and turned on fans who'd never buy an entire Madonna album. This helped her how? Maybe I would be a little less resentful that the song did well if Give It 2 Me did well as well, but instead GI2M met with about the same fate the COADF singles did, when IMO it was much more a typical Madonna track. And I also loved Timbaland's work with Nelly Furtado, which made me all the more interested in this album... well, he gave Nelly and Justin the top material IMO. I really see something wrong with the music industry that radio shuns Madonna, but will show interest in her only if some former boyband guy who was wearing diapers when Holiday came out teams up with her. Justin should be needing Madonna, not vice versa.

The same effect they wanted 4M to have could've been done with Beat Goes On, considering Kanye is a huge name. But unlike 4M, BGO still sounded like a good radio-friendly Madonna-esque track, even if it had Kanye on it. And I think it could've helped sell more albums as well because the JT fans who downloaded 4M weren't gonna buy HC. But this might've appealed to casual fans who bought COADF but stayed away from HC over 4M.

[afrolito]

I love Body language, but in no way is it better than Hard Candy, or "ahead of it's time"

The Pet shop boys are great, but they had a looong run of turd albums up until Fundamental, so let's not pretend they shit gold with every single. What they said in that q&a was not a diss towards Madonna at all though. What are some of you reading? I would love to see her do a few tracks with them, but hardly a whole record. If they had produced Hard Candy, it may have been great, or an even bigger commercial failure than American Life. None of us will ever know.

I happen to love Hard Candy as is, and i'm so glad it was bigger hit, than all of the flop fans who constantly bitch about it, could ever imagine.

[cosmic_system]

I'm probably the only person that think PSB sounds the same all the time.

I have the GH and that album with the lovely Kylie track, but as I said they are not fresh at all and too much camp for Madonna.

The should work with Cher.

[Etips]

I doubt that a PSB-produced Hard Candy would have moved more than the 700k units that the one in stores did. I suspect that it would have been off the Billboard 200 in half the time, and probably sold more than 100k less. Nevermind 20 Y.O., I’m imagining a reception closer to Discipline. As for “Give It 2 Me,” didn’t most of us predict that it would flop? It’s not the type of song radio plays. Furthermore, Madonna and Warner Bros. did next to nothing to promote it. So whose fault is it, really?

I think it’s silly to resent a song that brought Madonna the most radio attention she’s had in nearly a decade, just because Justin was attached to it and because some people perceive it to be a sound like “Fergie.” What was the alternative, her churning out more music that sounds like “Kylie,” and being totally shut out?

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I think it’s silly to resent a song that brought Madonna the most radio attention she’s had in nearly a decade, just because Justin was attached to it and because some people perceive it to be a sound like “Fergie.” What was the alternative, her churning out more music that sounds like “Kylie,” and being totally shut out?

why does success matter? Okay, 4M was a huge hit, do you think it's going to be remembered as little more than a footnote in her career in 10 years, kinda like Die Another Day or something. Just because it was a huge hit doesn't make it better or worse, but it did feel like her pandering to radio that won't give her REAL music a chance. IMO, it's just like David Bowie, his most commercially successful hitmaking period was the early 1980's, but how many fans do you know who consider that the period he made his best music? I see the same thing with 4 Minutes for Madge.

[peter]

I will say that, while I did not read their comment as disrespectful of Madonna on its face, there is an implied knock or two -- as some have picked up on. I don't know that it's intended, but... Think about it. For them to say that Warner 'pushed' her down the r&b road is as much as to say, she has no control over her career or her work. She only does what the label tells her to do. That sort of flies in the face of what we like to believe about Madonna -- whether that's myth or reality. (We all know she has a history sometimes of exerting her will on single releases, etc., and she obviously doesn't always choose the most commercial or accessible. That whole 'artistic integrity' thing she conveniently relies on. I'm not saying it's all an act or anything -- it's just hard to know, always, whether it's all genuine or whether there are other factors influencing her decisions.) So, while on the surface they may not have been meaning to take her down a peg, they may have made an unintended slight by insinuating that Madonna doesn't (or doesn't any longer) call the shots creatively on her career path.

Like it or not... Madonna has two double platinum singles: VOGUE and 4 MINUTES. I'm just sayin'. People can squawk all day about the fact that involved some young thing to hype it up and that she would have been nothing without it, but not all of JT's collabs have been equally successful. So, Madonna's ingredients are an important part of the recipe, as well. (For example, did Duran Duran's "Nite Runner" cause as much of a sensation as "4 Minutes" did? It also featured JT and was produced by Timbaland. I like it -- I'm not knocking the song, I'm just saying there was mutual benefit going on with the record. A symbiotic single.)

Edited March 9, 2009 by peter

[Nessie]

As for “Give It 2 Me,” didn’t most of us predict that it would flop? It’s not the type of song radio plays.

thats a US thing.

in my country Give It 2 Me is a HUGE hit till this day, it plays a lot on radio all the time and Miles Away is growing.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Duran Duran is far more of a niche, cult artist at this period surviving on the audience it still has (much like PSB... as well as Depeche, Erasure, The Cure, Morrissey and many others from the 80's who are still making records). They've been off the mainstream radar so long that it'd take more than Justin to actually give them another hit single. Same goes with Bjork, she's always been seen as an eccentric cult artist that radio outside of AAA stations have never touched. Madonna hadn't had a huge singles act in the US in several years, but she's always been much more on the mainstream radar than Duran or Bjork so radio was going to be more receptive to it.

[Ai Papi Si.]

A Pet Shop Boys album would have at least been more interesting, flop or not. It's funny that people have to resort to "But 4 Minutes was a hit!!!" to give Hard Candy any sort of plus points Poor Hard Candy. It was a total transitional project for Madonna, you can practically smell it when you play that crap.

(Cue Pud's Britney taunts )

Oh and because I'm obligated to post this anytime I say something bad about Hard Candy: I LOVE MADONNA WITH MY HEART & SOUL & SHE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEMALE RECORDING ARTIST OF THE GALAXY! (and yes I do mean it)

[Flip The Switch]

A Pet Shop Boys album would have at least been more interesting, flop or not. It's funny that people have to resort to "But 4 Minutes was a hit!!!" to give Hard Candy any sort of plus points Poor Hard Candy. It was a total transitional project for Madonna, you can practically smell it when you play that crap.

(Cue Pud's Britney taunts )

Oh and because I'm obligated to post this anytime I say something bad about Hard Candy: I LOVE MADONNA WITH MY HEART & SOUL & SHE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEMALE RECORDING ARTIST OF THE GALAXY! (and yes I do mean it)

[peter]

I know that having a hit isn't what it's all about, and I'm not necessarily satisfied if something sits atop the charts -- there's a lot of worthless stuff that gets to the top, too. I didn't mention the fact that "4 Minutes" was a hit to defend the album necessarily -- but to answer the question of 'what good did it serve if it alienated the COADF audience and didn't collect the youth audience?' The youth audience maybe didn't bite on the whole album, but they obviously bit on "4 Minutes." And it was being played in marching band half-time shows, it got picked up for the credits of a major summer time movie... It got her some different exposure. Calling it a transition project is probably an apt observation...

And I have to defend "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You," too -- Joe Henry had writing credits on that, too. And he's not exactly a slouch songwriter. It's one of the stronger songs on the album lyrically. It doesn't resort to rhyming 'girl' and 'world' for the umpteenth time in her career. (I say that with all the love in my heart for her and a fondness for ALL the songs in which she does it -- Material Girl, What It Feels Like for a Girl, Dance 2Night, 4 Minutes.)

Hard Candy didn't have as much staying power for me as the usual Madonna album does, but I can still enjoy it for what it is. It's candy. It's sweet, but it eventually dissolves. In the larger picture of her career, it might not be the standout. But in a 25-year career, you'll have high points and you'll have some pet projects, etc. This album came out the year she had a lot of milestones -- turned 50; was inducted into the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame; mounted her most successful tour yet (and the most successful for a female solo artist, right?), for which this album was the launch pad. I think a lot of those tracks worked well live.

Personally, I think the imagery (the disjointed nature of it, the uncertainty of the album name) didn't help, either. It's not my favorite album cover. There's a couple people I'd never give that album to -- not because I think they wouldn't enjoy the music, but because I'd be embarrassed to give them a CD with that cover photo. I love her always, I support her right to do what she wants and be photographed however she wants... I'm just saying she's gorgeous and sexy and there were better photos than that one.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Hard Candy didn't have as much staying power for me as the usual Madonna album does, but I can still enjoy it for what it is. It's candy. It's sweet, but it eventually dissolves. In the larger picture of her career, it might not be the standout. But in a 25-year career, you'll have high points and you'll have some pet projects, etc.

Quoted for truth.

A reason I hated the album was that it seemed to not be as challenging as her works Like A Prayer onward have been. Madonna's albums have always been ones that grew on repeat listenings, going from good to great usually. The tracks I still like off HC are the same ones I liked on first listen (GI2M, Miles, She's Not Me, Dance 2nite, Beat Goes On) and the ones I didn't care for then, I like no better now. It seemed so disappointing and too much of a product compared to the other albums she dropped in the past twenty years, all of which had uncovered gems that grow the more you listen. I expect an "okay" album like this from Beyonce or Mariah, I've come to expect nothing short of greatness from Madonna.

[Guest newyorker72]

One thing you'll have to remember about the PSB/Madge collaboration too, is that the PSB are songwriters, not producers. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. They may co-produce their cds, but they have someone else overseeing the project, and if they were to have done a few songs for M, they would have been very repetitive in nature, a la their SORRY remix. I love them to death, but they need a producer to work their magic on the songs to make them fantabulous. Their new cd is produced by Xenomania, and if you look at all of their past cds, they all have a producer, just like M does. And each sounds different because of that producer. Now that Angela Becker is managing them, and 'married' to Stuart Price, maybe there will be a Stuart/M/PSB collaboration in the future, but it will be Stuart doing the knob twisting. The PSB would write the songs.

One thing that I hope for is that M finds a good producer, be it Stuart, or William Orbit again. If you look back at the Madonna rising footage that's on youtube, you can see the magic being made in the studio with Orbit. Ray of Light was like nothing she's ever done, and the fact that she's told stories of 'egos', and crying in the studio with Pharrell, I think that 'magic' wasn't there like it should have been. She was being forced in to doing something she really didn't have her heart behind, and hopefully now that she's seen that the chart success will never be there again, maybe she'll go create some magic again. We can only hope.

With that being said, I think that Pharrell may be a good choice as a new producer. But it would have to be ALL him. Leave Timbaland out of it, and they might be able to move forward. He sounds like he could be very experimental in his music, just like Orbit was. But having to incorporate timbaland/timberlake in to the mix, and that 'hit' potential, is just something that needs to be left in 2007. Pharrell's songs were the only ones that I actually enjoyed on Hard Candy, and the epic songs he did could make for some great dance music. But, on the other hand, give it to me was such a flop- that's the aggravating part. It SHOULD have been huge. I don't know if it was the video, or what, but other than Pharrell, I can't imagine what she has up her sleeve next. I don't see her working on a cd until next year because of the tour extension, so it may be 2011 until we get something new.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

One thing that I hope for is that M finds a good producer, be it Stuart, or William Orbit again. If you look back at the Madonna rising footage that's on youtube, you can see the magic being made in the studio with Orbit. Ray of Light was like nothing she's ever done, and the fact that she's told stories of 'egos', and crying in the studio with Pharrell, I think that 'magic' wasn't there like it should have been. She was being forced in to doing something she really didn't have her heart behind, and hopefully now that she's seen that the chart success will never be there again, maybe she'll go create some magic again. We can only hope.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

One thing that I hope for is that M finds a good producer, be it Stuart, or William Orbit again. If you look back at the Madonna rising footage that's on youtube, you can see the magic being made in the studio with Orbit. Ray of Light was like nothing she's ever done, and the fact that she's told stories of 'egos', and crying in the studio with Pharrell, I think that 'magic' wasn't there like it should have been. She was being forced in to doing something she really didn't have her heart behind, and hopefully now that she's seen that the chart success will never be there again, maybe she'll go create some magic again. We can only hope.

I agree with you that Pharell's stuff was mostly better than Tim's stuff on here, but I still think Candy Shop felt like a really warmed over unfinished demo. But besides that, he was in charge of most of the best tracks. Of the five Timbo tracks, I only like Miles and Dance 2nite

[Guest Not4Pussies]

what if she really wasnt forced to go the commercial, r and b route....

what if thats what madonna really wanted

what if thats what madonna still wants...

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I have nothing against r&b, I like GOOD r&b, I like Beyonce, Mary J, Aaliyah, Janet, Brandy, Deborah Cox, even a lot of Mariah's r&b stuff is good. There were some good r&b tracks on HC. However, IMO, 4 Minutes and Candy Shop represent the nadir of the genre, stuff that wouldn't even command five seconds of my time if Fergie does it. R&B isn't just one sound much like Coldplay and Metallica are both rock, or how Britney and Jack Johnson are both pop.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

what if she really wasnt forced to go the commercial, r and b route....

what if thats what madonna really wanted

what if thats what madonna still wants...

She can make another 50 r&b albums if she wants, i just don't see why she has to SOUND like Timbaland left overs. There are countless r&b producers out there, what about Outkast? Bangladesh?, ect.

[Nightshade]

But what good is airplay and hype when everyone whispers that she's using him for a hit, and that it translated to album sales that weren't much bigger than American Life's anyways?

Who is whispering that? The hardcore fans maybe but I guarantee you the general public doesn't give a shit. They just want a good tune.

And don't you think haters have been saying that about Madonna since forever? Weren't you around when she worked with Babyface? David Foster? Those people had huge hits before Madonna found them. Fewer people on here seem to have a problem with those collaborations and it's the same idea.

IMO, 4 Minutes was meant to serve a purpose in surpassing Elvis' top 10 record that she'd tied with Hung Up, besides that, the song is probably at the all time bottom of the pile for singles.

Yeah, the key word there is IMO. Just because you proclaim it is the worst, doesn't mean it is. I happen to love "4 Minutes" to this day. In fact, I am guessing lots of people do since it is her biggest selling digital single in the U.S. so far this decade, and it was nominated for a Grammy. I'd say there are ample people who like it.

What good is a hit single if it alienates all the fans and does not draw in the new younger hipper fanbase it was meant to court?

It didn't alienate this fan. Or probably 90% of this board that actually bought the whole album anyway and/or attended the tour. I'd also argue that it did appeal to a younger, hipper fanbase since I never saw Miley Cyrus doing a YouTube routine to "Feedback" or "Touch My Body." The only difference is, the younger iTunes generation is more apt to buy singles (and they did) as opposed to the entire album. You might argue that appealing to the youth is pointless if they don't buy the album, but remember, Madonna is a POP artist at heart - not adult contemporary or strictly gay dance club. It's her job to stay fresh and new and it's probably hard work to do it every time out. I'd rather have her trying to challenge herself and turn out albums like American Life and Hard Candy than trying to make COADF over and over every time.

[acko]

Madonna should produce a Ballad with Neil.

PSB last album was great.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

It didn't alienate this fan. Or probably 90% of this board that actually bought the whole album anyway and/or attended the tour. I'd also argue that it did appeal to a younger, hipper fanbase since I never saw Miley Cyrus doing a YouTube routine to "Feedback" or "Touch My Body." The only difference is, the younger iTunes generation is more apt to buy singles (and they did) as opposed to the entire album. You might argue that appealing to the youth is pointless if they don't buy the album, but remember, Madonna is a POP artist at heart - not adult contemporary or strictly gay dance club. It's her job to stay fresh and new and it's probably hard work to do it every time out. I'd rather have her trying to challenge herself and turn out albums like American Life and Hard Candy than trying to make COADF over and over every time.

well, I'd feel like it attracted this more attractive demographic had it been more than just 4 Minutes. As far as many of these people are concerned, "that old woman" is just a tagalong on Justin's song. If these people bought 4 Mins, loved it, then decided to download other Madonna songs as a result, that would be something else, but they didn't, they just liked 4 Minutes and everything else Madonna does is irrelevant that doesn't have Justin involved. Compare this to ten years ago when I knew a lot of teens who never paid Madonna mind before check ROL out and become fans for life. It's not even the same thing IMO.

I think Beat Goes On could've been able to have more dual appeal to the fans and non-fans alike, as it was more of a Madonna track that had Kanye rap on it, instead of 4M where Madonna felt like a guest on her own record.