Skin Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 On a sidenote I read the paper with this article today and they had a good sized pic of Hard Candy which they declared a "Hit". In a low-sales era, what's a hit in music? The economic downturn may represent a grave new world for most folks, but not those in the music industry. Way before world markets began circling the drain, record companies saw their sales dive into free fall. Album purchases - at least the legal kind - have been quickly eroding for most of this decade. (Thank you, Napster and all your peer-to-peer file-sharing offspring). Here's just the latest example. On this week's Billboard 200 album chart, Usher's "Here I Stand" falls below the No. 100 mark after selling just over 1 million copies. His previous album, "Confessions," sold nine times that figure just four years ago. Let's face it: We're never going back to those halcyon days. Certainly, we're not going back to the go-go days of the '90s, when you had more than a dozen performers who could move more than 10 million copies of a given CD - an era crowned by Shania Twain's "Come on Over," which pushed a whopping 15.5 million copies. That figure made it the largest-selling CD of the entire Nielsen/SoundScan era, which began in 1991, when the industry began using verifiable sales tallies. By contrast, this year's top-selling album has moved an anemic 2.5 million copies (Lil Wayne's "Tha Carter III"). While more than two months remain in '08, it's hugely unlikely that Wayne will pick up the extra 1.1 million cash-register rings he'd need to beat the top seller of '07: Josh Groban's "Noel," which topped 3.6 million platters. Nor will he come near the peaks of '06 ("High School Musical 2" at 3.7 mil) or '05 (Mariah Carey's "The Adventures of Mimi" at 5 million). In fact, there has been a steady downturn in total sales for the top five albums in each year of this decade, ranging from a high of 22.3 million in 2001 to an '08 figure that will struggle to reach 10 million. Pondering all this could either make you look longingly at the ledge or flip the script and view the whole situation in a glass-half-full kinda way. Being an optimist, I've decided to go the latter route, and so hereby offer a modest proposal for redefining success in our new age of austerity. Gazing down the Billboard 200, I've established a fresh standard for a smash, or even for a hit. In calibrating this, I axed any albums that have lingered on Billboard's list for more than a year, as they essentially date from another, happier era. (Only a few entries qualify, including Nickelback's "All the Right Reasons," which has sold nearly 7 million copies but started its run nearly three years ago, and Daughtry's self-titled debut, which sold 4.2 million copies but began moving product nearly two years back.) Shorn of those entries, there's just one act on the current top 200 that has broken the 3 million mark (Alicia Keys). Even the most hyped and exposed of albums of '08 - like Mariah Carey's "E=MC2" and Coldplay's "Viva la Vida" - haven't been able to reach the 2 million bar. Given this, here's how we should evaluate top sales now. THE NEW DEFINITIONS... BLOCKBUSTER: 2 MILLION & UP The equivalent of 5 million, or more, back in 2000 Alicia Keys "As I Am" 3.6 million Lil Wayne "Tha Carter III" 2.6M Carrie Underwood "Carnival Ride" 2.3M Kid Rock "Rock n Roll Jesus" 2.1M Rascal Flatts "Still Feels Good" 2M SMASH: 1 MILLION & UP The equivalent of 3 million in 2000 Garth Brooks "Ultimate Hits" 1.9 million Chris Brown "Exclusive" 1.81M Coldplay "Viva la Vida" 1.81M Jack Johnson "Sleep Throughthe Static" 1.4M Leona Lewis "Spirit" 1.18M Metallica "Death Magnetic" 1.11M (in just four weeks) Mariah Carey "E=MC2" 1.1M Robert Plant and Alison Krauss "Raising Sand" 1.09M "Mamma Mia!" soundtrack 1.05M Usher "Here I Stand" 1.04M "Camp Rock" soundtrack 1.034M Led Zeppelin "Mothership" 995,000 The Jonas Brothers "A Little Bit Longer" 992,000 Miley Cyrus "Breakout" 953,000 Jordin Sparks "Jordin Sparks" 932,833 Sugarland "Love on the Inside" 922,000 HIT: 500,000 & UP The equivalent of a million-selling, platinum CD in 2000 "Alvin and the Chipmunks" soundtrack 876,772 OneRepublic "Dreaming Out Loud" 791,000 Disturbed "Indestructible" 756,000 Rick Ross "Trilla" 684,000 Madonna "Hard Candy" 654,000 Keith Urban "Greatest Hits" 632,000 Radiohead "In Rainbows" 625,000 George Strait "Troubador" 579,000 3 Doors Down "3 Doors Down" 578,000 Seether "Finding Beauty in Negative Spaces" 559,000 Alan Jackson "Good Time" 552,000 Danity Kane "Welcome to the Dollhouse" 546,000 Duffy "Rockferry" 528,000 Plies "Definition of Real" 520,000 Young Jeezy "The Recession" 516,000 Trace Adkins "Greatest Hits Volume 2" 508,000 jfarber@nydailynews.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Can someone send it to all posters across the board. It would save a lot of grief. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So Madonna almost had a blockbuster with Confession on a Dancefloor a small 2 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I know it was 2005.. but I'd just like 2 point out that Stateside, COAD was a well promoted solidly selling smash. so there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 On a sidenote I read the paper with this article today and they had a good sized pic of Hard Candy which they declared a "Hit". In a low-sales era, what's a hit in music? By contrast, this year's top-selling album has moved an anemic 2.5 million copies (Lil Wayne's "Tha Carter III"). While more than two months remain in '08, it's hugely unlikely that Wayne will pick up the extra 1.1 million cash-register rings he'd need to beat the top seller of '07: Josh Groban's "Noel," which topped 3.6 million platters. Nor will he come near the peaks of '06 ("High School Musical 2" at 3.7 mil) or '05 (Mariah Carey's "The Adventures of Mimi" at 5 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai Papi Si. Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 For awhile there it looked like Hard Candy was a DOA disaster when all the inflated projections people had on here were aggresively put to rest (even I thought it was gonna debut better), but looking at that list you can see that this album is performing at least on the same level Confessions was, adjusted for inflation from 2-3 years ago. 2006 was probably the last year the music market had any life at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 if 500.000 are like a million copies from 2000, HC is still a flop!!! she needs to sell a million in 2008 to be considered a hit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boy skeffington Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hard Candy is not a flop in the US, by ANY standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think it's funny that it's treated as a bad thing because sales are down. I think downloading and iTunes are the best things to happen to music.... as a result, artists have to work harder at making an album worth buying (look at Mariah's last two albums for instance, less filler between those two than on 90% of her 90's albums). I have to admit on average, I've enjoyed more albums this decade than I did in the 90's, which had countless albums with a few good singles and a whole lotta filler (granted, there were exceptions like Madonna, Alanis, Bjork, Janet, etc...). I mean, maybe now an album won't sell to 13 million gullable people who get the chance to hear it before paying, but the consumer should be higher than the artist and should have the chance to listen before disposing their money. And because artists now know that there's the chance people will download and hear it before deciding to purchase, they have to work harder at making a worthy album instead of just flinging effortless shit with a great leadoff single. To be honest, I am a much bigger fan of 00's music than 90's, I spent most of the 90's discovering 70's and 80's music I didn't listen to before, but now there are new albums almost every week I want to check out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexz Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Some of you just can't admit it LOL. Hard Candy bombed alright [ in the USA ]. It had everything to be a hit, Justina colabo, Timbaland produced tracks, Madonna showing her ass. Timbaland even promoted 4 Minutes about 6 months before the single dropped in every radio interview he had. Ellen Degeneres played the record every day in her show. And so on. The "sales are not what used to be" excuse doesn't apply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Some of you just can't admit it LOL. Hard Candy bombed alright [ in the USA ]. It had everything to be a hit, Justina colabo, Timbaland produced tracks, Madonna showing her ass. Timbaland even promoted 4 Minutes about 6 months before the single dropped in every radio interview he had. Ellen Degeneres played the record every day in her show. And so on. The "sales are not what used to be" excuse doesn't apply here. And you still don't understand that having a hit single/video in 2008 doesn't mean people would rush to buy the whole album when they can just get that track for $0.99, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexz Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I understand that. She had a hit single and a flop album. No shame there. But some people will never admit Queen of the Universe isn't hot selling albums act anymore. And yes, I know she's a touring act now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 But if you think about it, she stopped being a massive album seller a long time ago. There was Ray Of Light as the exception, but in the 90s, she was outsold by a lot more people than she currently is. She managed to sell 2 million between 1992 and 1998 with each of her albums, but there were lot of acts who sold 4-5 times more than Madonna. I don't think that was really that hot selling either... It's just that people think everything below a million is immediately a flop, they don't see all the changes. It's like this: if Erotica sold 1.85 million and was a flop, she managed to outsell that by working with urban producers so she shifted 2.3 million with BS, which means fans want to think that if a huge flop like AL sold 670k, a dance album sold 1.6 million, then it's "logical" that a Timbaland/Neptunes produced album would at least sell 2 million. But it doesn't work like that. There's no comparison. It's just difficult to accept because Madonna's sales were never like MJ's or Janet's, whose next releases always sold less than the previous one. That's why everyone had those high expectations for Hard Candy and ignored that a lot of things are different now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FuckBuddy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 within the current market climate, hard candy was never expected to outsell or even match confessions figures. still, it was expected to sell a million copies on the back of madonna's most calculated lead single ever, and it failed to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Danny is right. Even while ROL and Music were both very successful albums, those still were selling 1/3 of what the big blockbusters at the time (Celine and Shania for ROL, N'Sync and Britney for Music) were doing. The last time Madonna was a "mega" selling artist (not counting TIC which got to 11 million because of steady catalog sales) was True Blue/Like A Prayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The last time Madonna was a "mega" selling artist (not counting TIC which got to 11 million because of steady catalog sales) was True Blue/Like A Prayer and LAP wasn´t c onsidered a mega hit either,it´s 4 platinums now, that´s a lot, but during 1989-1990 it sold 3 millions in the US, while Janet and Paula were selling like 7, 8...so although it wasn´t a flop, it wasn´t considered a mega hit. and anyway, I think that she has her standars, they used to be 2-3 million.and if 500.000 it´s a million, she ´s is flopping.Not that I´m obsessed with that, because I´m really happy with the album .and, if she doesn´t take care of her album´s sales, her tour´s are going to become less and less successful (unless she´s starts doing only oldies, real oldies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I understand that. She had a hit single and a flop album. No shame there. But some people will never admit Queen of the Universe isn't hot selling albums act anymore. Well, I wouldn't say it was a FLOP album. Under-performing maybe, but not a flop in the proper sense. A genuine FLOP to me is something like American Life which slid off nearly every chart worldwide by its 5th month in release. Hard Candy - while not selling gangbusters - is still charting in the majority of the world's countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 within the current market climate, hard candy was never expected to outsell or even match confessions figures. still, it was expected to sell a million copies on the back of madonna's most calculated lead single ever, and it failed to do so. I already explained to you that every pop hit is "calculated", it's not like "Hung Up" was any less "calculating" than "4 Minutes", but anyway, it became her second Double Platinum single, something she only achieved with "Vogue". As I said earlier, it's not the 90s anymore when one hit makes people buy a whole album. It's funny that people who dislike the HC era will keep on saying what a flop the album is and how Madonna's "sellout backfired" her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Some of you just can't admit it LOL. Hard Candy bombed alright [ in the USA ]. It had everything to be a hit, Justina colabo, Timbaland produced tracks, Madonna showing her ass. Timbaland even promoted 4 Minutes about 6 months before the single dropped in every radio interview he had. Ellen Degeneres played the record every day in her show. And so on. The "sales are not what used to be" excuse doesn't apply here. God i cant wait until Britney releases her album & you realize where we in the album sales department. December couldn't come soon enough. Read the article again Hard Candy isn't a flop it's considered a hit even in the US and Madonna last album was one of the top sellers in the world 3 years ago. We call a flop a flop when we see one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexz Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 We call a flop a flop when we see one We never see Madonna flopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 this magazine consideres that an album in 2000 selling a million copies was a hit, but i don´t consider it, at least not if the album is by madonna.so if she´s selling the equivalent of a million, she´s flopping by her standars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexz Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 this magazine consideres that an album in 2000 selling a million copies was a hit, but i don´t consider it, at least not if the album is by madonna.so if she´s selling the equivalent of a million, she´s flopping by her standars Yes. This article doesn't make sense but since it says Madonna is not flopping we must believe in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I did American Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The music buying industry is a flop. What's so hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 this magazine consideres that an album in 2000 selling a million copies was a hit, but i don´t consider it, at least not if the album is by madonna.so if she´s selling the equivalent of a million, she´s flopping by her standars I think it's delusional to expect Madonna to keep her sales standards when she can't even score a Top 10 airplay hit and her label barely promotes her stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebastard Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Who cares about album sales anyway anymore? It's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I already explained to you that every pop hit is "calculated", it's not like "Hung Up" was any less "calculating" than "4 Minutes", but anyway, it became her second Double Platinum single, something she only achieved with "Vogue". As I said earlier, it's not the 90s anymore when one hit makes people buy a whole album. It's funny that people who dislike the HC era will keep on saying what a flop the album is and how Madonna's "sellout backfired" her. well, if just taking the US market into consideration, Hung Up was nowhere as calculated as 4 Minutes. 4 Minutes was Madonna begging for a hit after US radio snubbed AL and COADF by calling up two of the hottest names in music. Hung Up may have been calculated in Europe with the classic ABBA sample, but in the US, I don't think it really had any calculation outside of the gay market which frankly (and sadly) the only market that still cares about dance music in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nothingfails0603 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Who cares about album sales anyway anymore? It's done. I don't think the music industry is dead, I just think the music industry is different than how we remembered it. No talent artists can't drop one good single and expect millions of gullable people to buy it for the one good single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franxisco66 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 HC is not a flop, but is not a hit as some loons want it to be. It is well underperforming everywhere, except in the States. It has sold less than 1/3 than Confessions, and less than 1/4 in Europe. Sales havent dropped that much in 2.5 yrs Everyone will see how Confessions will sell more as a catalog album than HC in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip The Switch Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 HC is not a flop, but is not a hit as some loons want it to be. It is well underperforming everywhere, except in the States. It has sold less than 1/3 than Confessions, and less than 1/4 in Europe. Sales havent dropped that much in 2.5 yrs Everyone will see how Confessions will sell more as a catalog album than HC in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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