Madonna Reinvents Herself As a Ticket-Scalping Profiteer

[Probed By Greys]

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[Nessie]

Madonna makes money from Ticketmaster sales ie she makes money on all tickets sold - whether to the scalping website StubHub or the fans. This Stubhub deal is ENTIRELY about making more money by whatever means.

She has signed a deal with Stubhub so she'll earn extra money from scalping her fans. You can argue that scalping happens anyway which is true but nonetheless she is endorsing it and making it easier.

She SHOULD be looking at ways to prevent scalping instead of benefiting from it.

Is anyone actually surprised though?The woman is quite rightly regarded as totally greedy.

I'm neither surprised nor angry. Few people agreed with me at the time but during the American Life era Madonna signed a huge deal to promote the Gap clothes who were being targetted by human rights organisations for their use of child slave labour to make their clothes in Asian sweatshops. This was at the time she was saying how awful materialism was on her American Life album while at the same time earning money off the back of child abuse.

That was the time I stopped loving Madonna - I still like her music but I dislike greed and I stopped respecting her as a person thanks to her greed and hypocrisy. I don't wish to be lectured on Malawi or Kabbollocks or making the world a better place by a woman who endorses theft from her employers (ie us her fans)

What's more this is an APPALLING PR move. Going to see Madonna is not a huge novelty anymore as she tours so often. Now that she is aging she will find it more difficult to sell records and gain new fans. Pissing off her fanbase like this will probably not affect sales for this tour but seeing as she will be touring every couple of years she will soon be playing smaller venues to fewer people.

I think she's accepted that her days as an artist relevant to the music scene are ending and she wants to make as much money as possible.

i have to agree with you. even if i still defend Madonna everytime someone trashs her for being a hypocrit bitch

i still try to find ways to keep Madonna in a better position but lately its becoming harder... i love Madonna and i always will but something is really mess right now

its hard to even think that she is on this business for the money and nothing else. she is an amazing performer but where is her emotion? she used to give it all and now feels kinda mecanical, its still enjoyable but miss some magic

[Glindathegood]

There's an article about this in the new Entertainment Weekly. It clearly states that Madonna is not giving them tickets. In fact, StubHub themselves doesn't actually have any tickets. It is a site that enables people to buy tickets from each other. It says Madonna isn't scalping. She is saying you can go here if the tickets are sold out.

Ticket agencies have always had excellent seats for Madonna concerts even before she endoresed Stub Hub. So they definitely are able to get them and it's not from Madonna or people working for her.

They say that Madonna is endorsing them and is giving them credibility since scalpers have a bad reputation. But she is definitely not giving them tickets since they don't have any. It's a trading site like ebay.

But as usual people don't want to know the facts, they just want to confirm their opinion Madonna is a greedy bitch.

[Martin B.]

i still try to find ways to keep Madonna in a better position but lately its becoming harder... i love Madonna and i always will but something is really mess right now

its hard to even think that she is on this business for the money and nothing else. she is an amazing performer but where is her emotion? she used to give it all and now feels kinda mecanical, its still enjoyable but miss some magic

Sad but true.

[Joey]

HAHAHAHAHA

[Guest Topaz Scorpio]

There's an article about this in the new Entertainment Weekly. It clearly states that Madonna is not giving them tickets. In fact, StubHub themselves doesn't actually have any tickets. It is a site that enables people to buy tickets from each other. It says Madonna isn't scalping. She is saying you can go here if the tickets are sold out.

Ticket agencies have always had excellent seats for Madonna concerts even before she endoresed Stub Hub. So they definitely are able to get them and it's not from Madonna or people working for her.

They say that Madonna is endorsing them and is giving them credibility since scalpers have a bad reputation. But she is definitely not giving them tickets since they don't have any. It's a trading site like ebay.

But as usual people don't want to know the facts, they just want to confirm their opinion Madonna is a greedy bitch.

AGAIN, I don't think anyone here (at least anyone with sense) is saying that Madonna is giving tickets to agencies to be scalped. The problem is that it is very clear that scalpers are using stubhub to sell their tickets and M is doing nothing to stop the scalpers, she's just taking a "la,la,la there's nothing I can do about them, so I'll just profit whatever way I can" attitude. And yes, that makes her a greedy bitch when you look at the fact that most within the music industry have decried the scalping of tickets for years and a number of bands have actively sought to implement ticket distribution methods that circumvent scalpers to try to make sure fans get the best possible seats. M in her position as one of the most wealthy, recognized, and powerful music artists out there could certainly have gotten further with anti-scalping plans that many of these smaller bands that have been trying and yet she doesn't. We don't specifically know why she hasn't but based on her decision to try and profit from tickets that are being scalped (regardless of how the scalpers hot their hands on the tickets) it is easy for us to infer that scalping, and it's negative impact on fans and the music industry as whole, is a problem that does not seem to concern her. That has made me lose a big chunk of respect for her.

[Carta]

There's an article about this in the new Entertainment Weekly. It clearly states that Madonna is not giving them tickets. In fact, StubHub themselves doesn't actually have any tickets. It is a site that enables people to buy tickets from each other. It says Madonna isn't scalping. She is saying you can go here if the tickets are sold out.

They're lying, according to several posters in here....! "You can't trust anything a scalping site says"

[Carta]

AGAIN, I don't think anyone here (at least anyone with sense) is saying that Madonna is giving tickets to agencies to be scalped.

Several people are claiming this, though (at least they were), and this is an argument that saw me trashed last weekend because I said she wasn't

[glittercandy]

They're lying, according to several posters in here....! "You can't trust anything a scalping site says"

I agree,,yeah and would you believe what a website that sells drugs tells you?

[Carta]

I agree,,yeah and would you believe what a website that sells drugs tells you?

I don't think they're lying, which is why I said "according to several posters in here" (i.e. I didn't claim ownership of the comment ).

Where does it say that they sell drugs? In any case, the article is from EW, so I guess they're lying, too. Apparently everyone's lying about this deal unless they say that Madonna is selling tickets directly to Stubhub, since clearly people have inside information here and *know* that nothing is true in this world (except that everyone's lying) Am I lying now? I guess I am, since I'm not saying that Madonna is selling tickets directly to the scalpers. What a bad person I am

[Carta]

Excuse the flippancy of my previous comment. I just don't see how *everyone* could be lying about this and how some people just *know* that this is the case.

[mrsz]

Several people are claiming this, though (at least they were), and this is an argument that saw me trashed last weekend because I said she wasn't

Sorry, but why would they share profits with her then, if they don't get anything in return?. Because they she gives the credibility? If anyone expects that there will be any offical confirmation that she gives them tickets, they must be very naive. She gets inolved in a sleasy business to get some money. That's all. But you can still fool yourself.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

Wow, some of you guys really make McCarthy look like a decent man. This place has become like the US in the 50s. Guilty by suspicion.

Present some evidence that she has given tickets to someone who is selling these tickets on stubhub on her behalf to maximize her profit! Then and only then you can say she is scalping her fans. If you can´t, just shut the f*ck up. For everyones sake.

[FreeMySoul]

im surprised she hasn't released a proper press release explaining the details of this deal and what it means for fans.

[bagol]

when you look at the fact that most within the music industry have decried the scalping of tickets for years and a number of bands have actively sought to implement ticket distribution methods that circumvent scalpers to try to make sure fans get the best possible seats. M in her position as one of the most wealthy, recognized, and powerful music artists out there could certainly have gotten further with anti-scalping plans that many of these smaller bands that have been trying and yet she doesn't.

exactly.

[Carta]

Sorry, but why would they share profits with her then, if they don't get anything in return?. Because they she gives the credibility? If anyone expects that there will be any offical confirmation that she gives them tickets, they must be very naive. She gets inolved in a sleasy business to get some money. That's all. But you can still fool yourself.

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Stubhub themselves do *not* sell the tickets? They are basically a ticketing version of eBay (the owners of Stubhub, BTW) - they provide a place for people to sell their tickets for whatever price they want. I've sold tickets on eBay before when I haven't been able to attend a concert (only ever for face value) - does that mean that eBay *owned* my tickets while I was selling them? No. They never even had my tickets in their possession. I did, however, have to pay them a proportion of the money that I got for the tickets, for the privilege of advertising on their website. This is how Stubhub works. They don't know where the tickets come from - all they do is provide a place for people to advertise them, just like eBay. Plenty of you will refuse to believe this and call me an idiot, a loon, an apologist and naive, but this is how Stubhub works. If you don't believe that, then that's your problem.

[Supernatural]

AGAIN, I don't think anyone here (at least anyone with sense) is saying that Madonna is giving tickets to agencies to be scalped. The problem is that it is very clear that scalpers are using stubhub to sell their tickets and M is doing nothing to stop the scalpers, she's just taking a "la,la,la there's nothing I can do about them, so I'll just profit whatever way I can" attitude. And yes, that makes her a greedy bitch when you look at the fact that most within the music industry have decried the scalping of tickets for years and a number of bands have actively sought to implement ticket distribution methods that circumvent scalpers to try to make sure fans get the best possible seats. M in her position as one of the most wealthy, recognized, and powerful music artists out there could certainly have gotten further with anti-scalping plans that many of these smaller bands that have been trying and yet she doesn't. We don't specifically know why she hasn't but based on her decision to try and profit from tickets that are being scalped (regardless of how the scalpers hot their hands on the tickets) it is easy for us to infer that scalping, and it's negative impact on fans and the music industry as whole, is a problem that does not seem to concern her. That has made me lose a big chunk of respect for her.

Stubhub is pretty much ebay. If YOU get tickets via Ticketmaster and then can't go to the show, should Madonna pop out of nowhere and stop you from reselling your tickets?

You speak of Madonna in her position and her concerns- first of all, this woman hasn't even gone on TV to promote her own album yet. And she has her interest in helping dying children in Malawi. Factor in that with the slightest bit of effort everyone who wants to go to the show at face value shouldn't have a problem via Ticketmaster, where do you think this nonsensical drama falls on a list of priorities?

[Supernatural]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Stubhub themselves do *not* sell the tickets?

Where is the drama in that?

[glittercandy]

I don't think they're lying, which is why I said "according to several posters in here" (i.e. I didn't claim ownership of the comment ).

Where does it say that they sell drugs? In any case, the article is from EW, so I guess they're lying, too. Apparently everyone's lying about this deal unless they say that Madonna is selling tickets directly to Stubhub, since clearly people have inside information here and *know* that nothing is true in this world (except that everyone's lying) Am I lying now? I guess I am, since I'm not saying that Madonna is selling tickets directly to the scalpers. What a bad person I am

Common sense tells you not to trust what a scalping agency claims. People are really naive.

[mrsz]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Stubhub themselves do *not* sell the tickets? They are basically a ticketing version of eBay (the owners of Stubhub, BTW) - they provide a place for people to sell their tickets for whatever price they want. I've sold tickets on eBay before when I haven't been able to attend a concert (only ever for face value) - does that mean that eBay *owned* my tickets while I was selling them? No. They never even had my tickets in their possession. I did, however, have to pay them a proportion of the money that I got for the tickets, for the privilege of advertising on their website. This is how Stubhub works. They don't know where the tickets come from - all they do is provide a place for people to advertise them, just like eBay. Plenty of you will refuse to believe this and call me an idiot, a loon, an apologist and naive, but this is how Stubhub works. If you don't believe that, then that's your problem.

Ok, just tell me why the are willing to share their profits with Madonna? If you give me a reasonable reason I will apologize and shut up. I just draw my conclusions from the very vague information we receive. And I base my conclusion on a very simple assumption -if they give something to her she gives them something back. That's the way it is in business ralations, and Stubhub is no charity.

[Guest Topaz Scorpio]

Here is an interesting article (at the bottom of page) about scalping from 1996, TWELVE YEARS AGO. It shows how the issue is a longtime problem and the various methods some bands have used to try and stop it. Now obviously times have changed a bit and most people get their tickets via the internet rather than standing in line, but the scalper issue remains.

The Hootie example clearly points out that it is very possible for a band to trace back and discover where ticket agencies obtained tickets from. Now it must be noted that they had a specific clause in their contract with the promoter that said all tickets had to be sold through the box office. Perhaps Live Nation does not have that clause for Madonna's tours and that would explain how ticket brokers are getting their hands on tickets early. BUT, it would've been very easy for M to have put a clause in restricting sales outside of Ticketmaster just as Hootie did. Why didn't she? Easy. Because if she did it would've prevented tickets from going to scalpers who would then mark them up and sell them via StubHub for M to make a profit on.

And the Pearl Jam example shows how barcode scanning/ID checks can make it more difficult for scalpers to resell tickets, something I suggested in one of my other posts.

So enough with the lame excuses defending her on this issue:

1) "She didn't give the tickets to the scalpers" - We know that. But she's not doing anything to stop them by employing methods mentioned in the below article.

2) "This "nonsensical" issue falls low on her list of priorities" - She has had more than 12 years to deal with the issue based on methods that were being used to fight scalpers back in 1996. Clearly it's not on her list AT ALL - translation - She doesn't give a damn.

3) "Why shouldn't she make money on the tickets if the scalpers are going to" - If she wants to make more money on the tickets then raise the damn prices. If she feels she can get $1000 a ticket for the first few rows then by all means charge it! I mean Barbra Streisand has gotten away with charging prices that high. Just don't go out with one lower price then look the other way when all those tickets are immediately unavailable for fans to purchase unless they use an overpriced scalper and then decide to profit on those scalped tickets when they are later resold. That's essentially a disguised bait-and-switch. I mean if she has a fear that she'd get stuck with some tickets that were priced too high then do what the airlines and hotels do, DYNAMIC PRICING. Charge higher prices for the best seats when they first go on sale, and sell as many as you can. If the demand drops then start to lower the prices. If demand spikes again then raise them again. Yes, people might get annoyed that they paid $1000 for a ticket and someone next to them paid $300 but it's no different than an airline ticket. As long as you lay out the process to people up front then there should be no problem. The dynamic pricing method will then garner her the money that the market is willing to bear and does it in a legal and fair method; if you want a guarantee of those good seats then get them right from the start, or take a risk that prices will fall and wait a little bit.

There are SO MANY different ways to fight this scalping issue and for her to still make more money in the process. If people can't see this then they are seriously beyond help.

***********************************

from nytimes.com

Scalping: Gritty Hand Of a Not-So-Free Market

By DAVID J. MORROW

Published: August 4, 1996

WHEN Hootie and the Blowfish step onto the stage tonight at the Jones Beach amphitheater on Long Island, those in the first 10 rows may be tempted to give a standing ovation before the music starts.

A month ago, the group upended a scheme to parcel off the best seats to scalpers, who were charging up to $150 a ticket. Not only did the rock stars nullify the scalped tickets and resell the seats at their $25 face value, they also asked the New York State Attorney General, Dennis C. Vacco, to investigate.

''It came down to a matter of stealing,'' said Rusty Harmon, the group's manager. ''It's just not right for someone to wait in line for hours and still not be able to get a seat better than row 11.''

Strike another blow for fans' rights, at least for the mass of people who have neither the wallets nor the contacts to get their hands on the hot tickets of the moment.

Within the last two years, several rock groups, including Pearl Jam, have lowered concert prices and made more prime seats available to the general public. The producers of the smash Broadway show ''Rent,'' which has a top price of $70, have set aside seats in the first two rows at each performance for same-day purchase at $20. And the managers of the wildly popular Picasso exhibit at the Museum of Modern Art in New York recently extended the hours and lowered admission prices on certain weekends -- rather than increasing prices, as the laws of supply and demand would allow -- to accommodate the crowds.

The motivation for doing good ranges from a chance to score public relations points to keeping the faith with grass-roots supporters. In Hootie's case, it was the band members remembering that they were part of the great mosh pit not so long ago.

And it is no small matter that the scalpers, not the performers, keep the steep surcharges, which are illegal in most states.

''The tragedy of this is that anyone should be able to get an affordable ticket to any event,'' Mr. Vacco said in a recent interview. ''But that's not happening. We're investigating what happened with the Hootie and the Blowfish concert, and I'm not going to rule out that my office will be able to charge people for wrongdoing.''

Whether being shut out of a Hootie concert is the stuff of tragedy is debatable. But one thing seems clear: as much as some entertainers and law enforcement officials want to level the playing field at the box office, strong market forces are working against them, and scalping is probably here to stay. It can be argued that the market, including scalpers, is working at its efficient best, given that one group of customers is choosing to compete for scarce tickets by using its cash while another group is using what it has lots of: time.

After all, not everyone can sit up front, or even find a spot at the back at the most-coveted events, and there is no shortage of high rollers willing to pay several times face value for a choice seat at short notice.

That leaves the fans who wait in line or who mail in requests months ahead of time out in the cold unless the artist or promoter protects them, and most do not. The sweet seats, the first 10 rows of a theater or concert hall, are usually snapped up by street scalpers or ticket brokers.

Scalping is illegal in most places, but enforcement is spotty and penalties modest.

Typically, licensed brokers are allowed to charge a small service fee for reselling tickets they have acquired legally, by waiting in line or ordering through the mail, as everyone else does, and paying face value. At most Broadway plays, individuals can buy up to 19 tickets at a time. More than that is a group sale, from which the sweet seats are excluded. The resale markup in New York is limited to $5 a ticket, or 10 percent above face value, whichever is greater.

But some brokers charge far more, especially when they get their tickets illegally, as apparently was the case at the Hootie concert. That happens when a box office clerk secretly sells blocks of prime seats to a broker at a premium. The broker then sells them at whatever the market will bear.

Because the penalties are relatively small (in New York, a $350 maximum fine and rarely imposed jail time of up to six months), many prosecutors have decided that it does not pay to go after individual scalpers. It is hard to make a case, they say, against people on the inside to cut off the flood of scalped tickets at the source. The solution, they say, is to raise the penalties.

''I want to have the crime bumped up from a misdemeanor to a felony,'' Mr. Vacco said, a change that could bring a $5,000 fine and additional jail time. He added that he may push for legislation soon.

The rules against scalping vary from state to state. Though a broker in one state selling tickets to an event in another state is supposed to honor the other jurisdiction's rules, in practice compliance is largely voluntary. Some states, like California, allow brokers to charge any price they can get, with minor restrictions.

As for legal ticket prices, which have been soaring for years, the forces opposing change are no less substantial. Pearl Jam's high-profile crusade to keep prices down hardly set off a stampede toward discounting. Tickets for even a Broadway dud can still go for $65. It cost as much as $1,500 to hear Luciano Pavarotti and his colleagues at the Three Tenors concert two weeks ago at Giants Stadium.

Promoters of events from Broadway musicals to professional sports balk at the notion of slicing prices. The money the tickets bring in finances the next production or pays for a new player, expensive transactions that could force prices even higher.

Still, enough crosscurrents are at work to divide the entertainment world into three camps: a few who aggressively try to make the ticket process less expensive and more equitable; a few more who straddle the issue and usually charge top dollar but sometimes give discounts or perform for free, and everyone else.

IT was a fluke that Hootie and the Blowfish discovered 534 of the best seats had been scalped at Jones Beach. Weeks ago, the band's tour accountant, Michael Lorick, phoned a broker about tickets for another group and was stunned to hear the band's tickets listed for sale on the recorded announcement.

The band then asked the promoters, Delsener/Slater, for an inventory of ticket sales. After careful sleuthing, the band said, it was found that tickets for the first 10 rows had been removed from the main batch and sold to a broker. This kind of secret deal appears to be common at big events.

The band said the plan would not have been derailed if it had not had a clause in its contract that requires the promoter to sell all of the group's tickets through the box office. The band, which had its start in bars in South Carolina, insists on having its fans up close, at least those fans who are young and not well heeled.

''It's easy to spot when something has gone wrong,'' said Mr. Harmon, the manager. ''You'll look out and see some old man in a suit and say, 'What's he doing sitting there? He didn't camp out for that ticket.' ''

While the band's crime-fighting skills are admirable, fans may appreciate the concert schedule more. Most bands play only one concert at each site, but Hootie often does two. The double play -- their first concert was scheduled at Jones Beach last night -- not only allows more fans to see the act but also keeps down prices.

''When you're touring, the whole point is to have your fans come out and see you,'' Mr. Harmon said.

For Broadway fans, where the theaters have far fewer seats than do the big rock arenas, a spot near the front takes a lot of patience or a lot of money.

For the top musicals -- ''Rent,'' ''Sunset Boulevard,'' ''The Phantom of the Opera'' -- the box office may not have prime seats available for weeks. But ticket brokers seem to have plenty to go around, for that night's performance and the next day's and the one after that. Their hold over the first 10 rows is so strong, the Attorney General's office openly suspects foul play.

Mr. Vacco said he thought that prime tickets to some of the top musicals were being sold to brokers illegally from the box office. Mr. Vacco's predecessor, G. Oliver Koppell, commissioned a study of scalping in 1994 that reached the same conclusion.

Whether the tickets are obtained by brokers legally or not, they certainly can be hard to buy at the box office. Consider ''The Phantom of the Opera,'' the musical that made its Broadway debut in 1987. Front-row tickets are still so hard to come by that theatergoers will pay virtually anything for them. On a recent Wednesday, the box office said that orchestra seats were sold out through the weekend. Yet two days later, three New York brokers were offering tickets in the first 10 rows for that night's performance. Their prices ranged from $155 to $175, more than double the face value.

Many Broadway executives, including those offering ''The Phantom of the Opera,'' say their box offices are well supervised and that nothing illegal is going on.

''Brokers get tickets from the box office by paying people to stand in line,'' said Bob Wankel, senior vice president of the Shubert Organization, whose theaters have ''Miss Saigon'' and ''Phantom.'' ''The best way to get a good seat is to call Tele-Charge or go through the box office. You'll get the best seat possible at the best price if you're willing to wait long enough for it.''

If they wait, some theatergoers will see ''Phantom'' for as little as $15, the cost of a rear mezzanine seat for some weeknight performances. Other top musicals also have such cheap mezzanine seats.

In the art world, flexibility and accommodation have been the bywords not only at the Museum of Modern Art but also at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, which recently expanded the hours for its Cezanne exhibit.

Fearful that its $12.50 fee for the Picasso exhibit would be a bar to many, the Museum of Modern Art set aside four weekends when visitors can contribute whatever they please, even if that means nothing.

''We didn't make these changes until we saw how popular the exhibit was,'' said Elizabeth Addison, deputy director for marketing and communications for the museum. ''No one likes to stand in line, so we extended the hours so that everyone could see it more comfortably. With our special admission days, the exhibit is affordable.''

NOT all events are handled this way. Many organizers have used crowds, or the promise of them, to start a buying frenzy. But such strategies don't always work. A case in point is the Olympics.

The Atlanta organizers warned last year that those who did not buy an expensive ticket package would be stuck at home. Yet when the Olympics finally opened, 3 million of the original 11 million tickets were still available, at their original prices.

The organizers' warnings may have been too effective for their own good, discouraging some people. Other reasons for the excess: some miscues in planning and overestimates about demand, as corporate sponsors and international Olympic committees returned tickets to the box office.

Whatever the causes, they made for many happy customers and left scalpers holding the bag in some instances.

Nick Hernandez, an Atlanta importer, waited three hours the day before the Games began on July 19. He not only bought tickets to the opening ceremonies, but also a prime seat for United States basketball.

''It's like winning the lottery,'' said Mr. Hernandez, who paid $460 for his prize catches. ''I called two months ago, and these tickets weren't available.''

Hundreds of thousands of the most sought-after tickets became available just as the Games opened, snapped up by people who were at the ticket windows when the seats popped up on computer screens.

Sports events seldom have a ready supply of front-row tickets. Yet fans have a better shot at getting prime seats at some championships than at others. Two of the best: Wimbledon and the Kentucky Derby. Each year, the All England Lawn and Tennis Club offers a daily supply of tickets to the public through a lottery. Once play starts, spectators who leave the grounds early are encouraged to turn their tickets back to the gate to be resold.

The Derby, meanwhile, is a scalper's nightmare. Tickets, from a $42 bleacher seat to $650 for a box seat, are delivered by certified mail to fans who request them in writing and are limited to six tickets each. Otherwise, fans can try for a spot in the infield -- and these spots can't be scalped since people are let in first come, first served for $20.

''Scalping is illegal in Kentucky and we keep a close watch,'' said Harriet Howard, director of special events at Churchill Downs. ''To get into the infield, all you do is come and wait. There are no tickets to be scalped. It's cash at the door. That's the only way to maintain the integrity of the event.''

Life is more complicated for tennis fans at the United States Open in New York. Even though the United States Tennis Association expanded its grandstand stadium this year in Flushing Meadows, Queens, prime tickets may remain in short supply. In years past, many court-side seats were sold by scalpers at three times face value. Business is so good for the scalpers that the Attorney General's office suspects wrongdoing, a charge denied by tennis executives.

''That's not happening here,'' said Philip J. Molite, the ticket manager for the Open. ''The truth is that if you want a ticket to the Open, you can get it. These box office scams happen in places where the ticket takers are professionals. I'm using college kids who wouldn't know how to steal tickets.''

FOR some stars, it is not enough to make tickets easier to get. They also want to make them cheaper. The top crusader is Pearl Jam.

Two years ago, the group complained to the Justice Department about Ticketmaster, which controls the distribution of tickets at many concert halls around the country, in a bid to stop the company from imposing a $7 service and handling fee on each ticket. Pearl Jam, which plays to a young audience, asked the department to investigate what it called Ticketmaster's monopoly in the concert business.

The department dropped the Ticketmaster investigation last year, but not before Pearl Jam tried a cheaper ticket distribution system. When the band tours in September, tickets will range from $15 to $22.50, plus a $2.50 service charge. Fans will buy their tickets over the phone by opening an account with Sands Tours and Tickets, a company in Philadelphia. The tickets will have a bar code identifying the buyers by account number.

''With that bar code we can trace what happens to the ticket,'' said Ray Garman, a company executive, by checking the identification of some concertgoers at the door. ''Not only will the ticket be more difficult to scalp, the fan will know exactly how much it will cost. He won't pay $20 for a ticket and then discover when the tickets come in the mail that they actually cost $27. With this system, the band can issue tickets the way it wants to.''

The Three Tenors like to issue tickets with some big numbers. While Mr. Pavarotti has performed without charge, notably in Central Park, his current tour with Placido Domingo and Jose Carreras is designed to bring the singers about $8 million each.

To be sure, the 1,000 people who paid $1,500 each to get close to the singers at Giants Stadium got really close. All 1,000 got to mingle with the tenors at an ''intimate'' dinner party after the concert.

Fans who bought $1,000 tickets did not get into the party and had to settle for seats that were no better than the middle of row 18.

''The $1,500 tickets bought a great seat in the house and the party,'' said Michael Sampliner, managing director of Hoffman Concerts in New York, which produced the gala. ''We obviously think it was worth the price.''

So did the marketplace. The concert was a sellout.

[svperstar]

I couldn't give two shits about whether she is supplying tickets to StubHub prior to public availability.

What we DO know is that she signed the deal which makes her an endorser of this practice, and therefore I have lost a great amount of respect for her business ethic.

[Guest boytoyville]

^ I myself gained even more respect for her with this brilliant buisness decision. Funny how different peoples opinions are on this subject.

[Carta]

Common sense tells you not to trust what a scalping agency claims. People are really naive.

Some people are really cynical, too.

[Carta]

Where is the drama in that?

Bingo!

[Carta]

Ok, just tell me why the are willing to share their profits with Madonna? If you give me a reasonable reason I will apologize and shut up. I just draw my conclusions from the very vague information we receive. And I base my conclusion on a very simple assumption -if they give something to her she gives them something back. That's the way it is in business ralations, and Stubhub is no charity.

They've already stated that the promotion they receive from being able to use her name and from being mentioned on every press release and every email sent out about the Sticky and Sweet Tour is invaluable. That's their official statement. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. Live Nation and Madonna give Stubhub wads of publicity in return for a share of the profits. Stubhub gives Madonna money, she gives them advertising. What's so hard to understand about that?

[glittercandy]

Some people are really cynical, too.

Not cynical, just truthful.

[Carta]

Not cynical, just truthful.

What makes your truth the only truth out there? You say one thing, I say another. Who's right and who's wrong? Who knows for sure? Neither of us.

[Nessie]

24 pages???

this thread

[glittercandy]

What makes your truth the only truth out there? You say one thing, I say another. Who's right and who's wrong? Who knows for sure? Neither of us.

Carta your in bed with scalpers we all know that by now.