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Why didn´t she mention Steven Bray during her R&R Hall of Fame speech???


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Guest Glamorama

She is not seeing the light by doing that! At least that's one of the teachings of Kabbalah!

yes but of course the Kabballah Lite which Madonna follows is a worthless heap of shit like Christianity or Islam so I wouldn't take it seriously

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Actually, it was Pat Leonard who was made about the remixed songs on The Immaculate Collection - particularly Shep's new version of "Like A Prayer" which was more frothy and house-oriented than the rock-gospel original.

Actually, Pat gave an small interview to Rolling Stone circa 1990 (maybe 1991) in which he was asked about the next Madonna album and he said he would only work on it if she signed a clause to say she wouldn't remix the tracks for single release. He must have been well pissed when he succummed for the ROL album only to have M and Orbit rework Frozen :chuckle:

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Of course LAV is the hit that made her an esablished artist.....i'm just suprised how some deny TAB as being the bigger success between the two when the facts don't lie.

Denial Maybe?

The fact is that LAV is a CLASSIC song in pop history, and TAB is just a 90s hit.BIG DIFFERENCE.

Oh and btw, I like TAB.

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Steve Bray once said that he always preferred the demo that they did of "Express Yourself" to the version that ended up on LAP. As for their falling out, it happened in the late 80s (they haven't worked together since 1988) and details have never been revealed. All Steve has said is that Madonna didn't want their old songs released, but that as he was the co-producer of all of the tracks, he had the right to do so without her permission. He has other demos that they recorded, but as they were produced after she signed with Sire, he's legally not allowed to release them.

I don't really understand Pat's annoyance concerning the LAP singles. Edits of the album versions of his tracks were on the 7" singles, not remixes (although LAP was tweaked a little, but hardly enough to create waves).

Madonna upset Pat in 1998 when she basically said that his work was similar to Peter Gabriel's style, and that's why she opted to record their songs with William Orbit co-producing, rather than with Pat. Still, they've worked together since, so there's obviously no bad blood between them.

Shep was furious when she abandoned their initial work for Bedtime Stories and changed direction. She thanked him "for understanding". He sued and as part of the settlement, she gave up most of her rights to the demos that they wrote and recorded for the album (e.g. "Love Won't Wait" was a full co-write between the two of them, but Madonna takes only a 5% credit for it. Ditto for "Something's Coming Over Me", which is the original version of "Secret", but again, she only has a 5% stake in the publishers' royalties (incidentally, the same she has for MATM).

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Of course LAV is the hit that made her an esablished artist.....i'm just suprised how some deny TAB as being the bigger success between the two when the facts don't lie.

Denial Maybe?

you're just too silly to be true

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Steve Bray once said that he always preferred the demo that they did of "Express Yourself" to the version that ended up on LAP. As for their falling out, it happened in the late 80s (they haven't worked together since 1988) and details have never been revealed. All Steve has said is that Madonna didn't want their old songs released, but that as he was the co-producer of all of the tracks, he had the right to do so without her permission. He has other demos that they recorded, but as they were produced after she signed with Sire, he's legally not allowed to release them.

I don't really understand Pat's annoyance concerning the LAP singles. Edits of the album versions of his tracks were on the 7" singles, not remixes (although LAP was tweaked a little, but hardly enough to create waves).

Madonna upset Pat in 1998 when she basically said that his work was similar to Peter Gabriel's style, and that's why she opted to record their songs with William Orbit co-producing, rather than with Pat. Still, they've worked together since, so there's obviously no bad blood between them.

Shep was furious when she abandoned their initial work for Bedtime Stories and changed direction. She thanked him "for understanding". He sued and as part of the settlement, she gave up most of her rights to the demos that they wrote and recorded for the album (e.g. "Love Won't Wait" was a full co-write between the two of them, but Madonna takes only a 5% credit for it. Ditto for "Something's Coming Over Me", which is the original version of "Secret", but again, she only has a 5% stake in the publishers' royalties (incidentally, the same she has for MATM).

only 5 % of the rights are for madonna???? that´s nothing!!!!

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5% is all she holds in terms of publishing rights. For "Love Won't Wait", that's because of the deal she reached with Shep Pettibone. For MATM, it's because she only contributed a small section to the song. For most of her other recordings, she has a 50% publisher's share.....

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I think she was still mates with Steve even in 1990. Didn't they record Get Over and another track for possible inclusion for TIC? Eventually Get Over was reworked by herself and Shep and then given to Nick Scotti wasn't it?

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5% is all she holds in terms of publishing rights. For "Love Won't Wait", that's because of the deal she reached with Shep Pettibone. For MATM, it's because she only contributed a small section to the song. For most of her other recordings, she has a 50% publisher's share.....

Hey Britney, you say you wanna lose control

Come over here I got something to show you

5% for THAT :blink:

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Madonna upset Pat in 1998 when she basically said that his work was similar to Peter Gabriel's style, and that's why she opted to record their songs with William Orbit co-producing, rather than with Pat. Still, they've worked together since, so there's obviously no bad blood between them.

She was supposed to work with him on ROL and then changed direction and hired WO. Pat was credited with the writing credits, so obviously their collaboration was include in the album. He just did not end up producing the record. She must have felt bad as she wrote him a long apologizing letter, where she explained the reasons why she wanted to go another direction. This letter actually leaked on internet at the time. It was pretty personal.

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She was supposed to work with him on ROL and then changed direction and hired WO. Pat was credited with the writing credits, so obviously their collaboration was include in the album. He just did not end up producing the record. She must have felt bad as she wrote him a long apologizing letter, where she explained the reasons why she wanted to go another direction. This letter actually leaked on internet at the time. It was pretty personal.

I want to read it .... anyone has it?

Thank you!

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Guest Pud Whacker

She barely remember her own old hits and people who worked with her. She seems to forget what she did yesterday sometimes.

i can barely remember what i did 5 minutes ago...

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I want to read it .... anyone has it?

Thank you!

The thing I remember most is that she said she wanted Pat's help to create the album because she fell out with Nelle Hooper who was meant to be on board producing the album's bulk. She said he wanted a writing credit on the songs he co-produced, despite having no writing involvement. This irritated her so she said to Pat something along the lines of "at least we can write and produce together equally".

I seem to remember it was a touching, thoughtfully written letter. She doesn't slag off Nelle exactly but it's clear she was unhappy with sharing credit with him for stuff he hadn't done. I've often wondered if it was the 'leaking' of this letter that has led to a repeat of the Pat Leonard absence in her work since ROL. After all it would have had to come from Pat Leonard wouldn't it? Maybe she was crushed when it appeared and felt let down by him?

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I'm sure people get pissed and vendictive when Madonna moves on. Sounds like the case with Shep. Possibly Steve Bray. I don't think there was a falling out w/ Bray after the LAP album, I think his sound had just become repetative and dated. Maybe he was a pain in the ass about it. Putting out Pre-Madonna probably didn't help.

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Hey Britney, you say you wanna lose control

Come over here I got something to show you

5% for THAT :blink:

Plus the two lines after that, yes.

She contributed lyrics and melody, so absolutely deserved a small writer's credit.

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She was supposed to work with him on ROL and then changed direction and hired WO. Pat was credited with the writing credits, so obviously their collaboration was include in the album. He just did not end up producing the record. She must have felt bad as she wrote him a long apologizing letter, where she explained the reasons why she wanted to go another direction. This letter actually leaked on internet at the time. It was pretty personal.

That's what I said :thumbsup She chose to record their songs with William, because she didn't really want Pat's production style on the album. They wrote several songs together and William then produced them with Madonna. William said something about being nervous about working on Pat's material and was worried about what he'd think of the new direction that "Frozen" had taken.

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What confuses me is how Pat got co-producing credit on the songs he co-wrote for ROL, if he didn't actually have a hand in the actual production of the songs. It always seemed (to me) that the PL-written songs on ROL sounded a little more "ironed out" and "mainstream" (from a production standpoint) than the non PL-written songs. I always took that to mean that he DID have a hand in the assembly, and perhaped slightly tweaked/tempered Orbits more experimental and avant-garde production.

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I think she was still mates with Steve even in 1990. Didn't they record Get Over and another track for possible inclusion for TIC? Eventually Get Over was reworked by herself and Shep and then given to Nick Scotti wasn't it?

Oh of course! I'd forgotten about "Get Over". It might have been written during the LAP sessions, but regardless, it does remain the last collaboration between the two and was floating around in 1990 (produced by Shep for TIC, apparently).

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Sorry, I've been misleading in my posts! Madonna and Pat did produce several tracks together, but then William and Madonna basically reworked them completely. My understanding is that Pat's original vocal production is basically intact, but the rest of the song was re-produced and this was why he kept a producer's credit.

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Guest Pud Whacker

I think she was still mates with Steve even in 1990. Didn't they record Get Over and another track for possible inclusion for TIC? Eventually Get Over was reworked by herself and Shep and then given to Nick Scotti wasn't it?

are you kidding? he and her made that demo tape that got her signed.

stay 81

dont you know

laugh to keep from crying

crimes of passion

sidewalk talk - original production

gambler - original demo

angel

over and over

pretender

stay

into the groove - first commercial production on her own

papa dont preach (production)

true blue

wheres the party

jimmy jimmy

causing a commotion

cant stop

express yourself

keep it together

steve bray is everything. :thumbsup:

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Pat did have production on ROL

he did the orchestral arrangments

She mentioned in several interviews how hes a proffessionl musician

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