"4 Minutes" on the Billboard Charts

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Your last point is incorrect, the Hot 100 is meant to reflect the most popular songs across the country by combining sales and airplay.

But, good news -- the chart you want is called the Pop 100 and it already exists!

the Pop 100 doesn't have the same clout that the Urban and Country charts have. I highly doubt in ten years Kelly Clarkson will release a "The #1's" album and have it be all of her Pop 100 #1's and have it taken seriously the way someone like George Strait or Reba can release an album of their 30+ country #1's

[Guest Bad Robot]

So, you'd like Billboard, a magazine designed for the industry so that record labels can track the national success of their music, to change their rules and make the Hot 100 no longer a true reflection of popularity across all radio stations and all sales outlets, because... you can't hum most of the songs in the top ten?

I don't mind if people don't like the current music scene, but every time they point the finger at Billboard I want to scream. Billboard has NO CONTROL over what is popular, they are synthesizing numbers, pure and simple. It's like saying you don't like the results of a presidential election so could we just change the rules so that your vote doesn't count unless you live in a big city, or live on the coast, or like ice cream, or whatever arbitrary rule gets you the result you want.

If you don't like what the ten most popular songs in the country are, then the only thing you can do is be sure to buy the music you DO like and to share it with your friends and work for the success of those artists and songs you like.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

So, you'd like Billboard, a magazine designed for the industry so that record labels can track the national success of their music, to change their rules and make the Hot 100 no longer a true reflection of popularity across all radio stations and all sales outlets, because... you can't hum most of the songs in the top ten?

I don't mind if people don't like the current music scene, but every time they point the finger at Billboard I want to scream. Billboard has NO CONTROL over what is popular, they are synthesizing numbers, pure and simple. It's like saying you don't like the results of a presidential election so could we just change the rules so that your vote doesn't count unless you live in a big city, or live on the coast, or like ice cream, or whatever arbitrary rule gets you the result you want.

If you don't like what the ten most popular songs in the country are, then the only thing you can do is be sure to buy the music you DO like and to share it with your friends and work for the success of those artists and songs you like.

well, I know there is a difference between single success and album success (all you have to do is look at Rihanna, but even then, she's been able to keep her album in the top 100 for over a year), but considering the album housing the #1 single in America this week is currently #197 and has sold 30,000 copies total, there is really a divide between what choice programmers like and what the consumers like.

[Alexz]

The sales chart should be the official chart. The airplay + sales + STEAMINGS [LMFAO at this] is wrong. Only 4 countries in the world apply that idiocy [uS, Canada, The Netherlands and New Zealand (Billboard Japan as well)].

A spin = people turning off the radio or changing it.

A sale = people PAYING for something they like it's *definitive*.

Artists promote their music in very diverse ways but you don't see tabloids or live performances factored in the Hot 100. Not even video airplay.

[Guest dicktracy]

To prove that point further, I'll use data from my Billboard chart books from the 70's, 80's and 90's for this week 10, 20 and 30 years ago compared to today

6-10-1978

1. YOU'RE THE ONE THAT I WANT * John Travolta & Olivia Newton-John

2. SHADOW DANCING * Andy Gibb

3. TOO MUCH TOO LITTLE TOO LATE * Johnny Mathis & Deniece Williams

4. FEELS SO GOOD * Chuck Mangione

5. BAKER STREET * Gerry Rafferty

6. IT'S A HEARTACHE * Bonnie Tyler

7. ON BROADWAY * George Benson

8. TAKE A CHANCE ON ME * ABBA

9. WITH A LITTLE LUCK * Paul McCartney & Wings

10. THIS TIME I'M IN IT FOR LOVE * Player

I wasn't even born yet and I can either sing or hum at least part of the five bolded songs. Let's go to the next set when I was about 8-9

6-11-1988

1. ONE MORE TRY * George Michael

2. TOGETHER FOREVER * Rick Astley

3. EVERYTHING YOUR HEART DESIRES * Hall And Oates

4. SHATTERED DREAMS * Johnny Hates Jazz

5. NAUGHTY GIRLS (NEED LOVE TOO) * Samantha Fox

6. FOOLISH BEAT * Debbie Gibson

7. MAKE IT REAL * The Jets

8. DIRTY DIANA * Michael Jackson

9. CIRCLE IN THE SAND * Belinda Carlisle

10. THE VALLEY ROAD * Bruce Hornsby

20 years on, I can still sing or hum eight of the ten songs. I do remember the Jets and Bruce Hornsby songs getting airplay but can't remember much about either. All ten of these songs I remember getting MTV/VH1 airplay. All ten were well-known if you listened to pop music at all in 1988

Now we go ten years back when the rules had changed a bit, but at this time, you had to be a commercial single to chart, so a lot of airplay smashes were ineligable like "Torn" and "Iris" which were both major hits that summer

6-13-1998 (Frozen was #18 this week btw, Ray Of Light was still a month away from it's hot 100 debut)

1. THE BOY IS MINE * Brandy And Monica

2. TOO CLOSE * Next

3. YOU'RE STILL THE ONE * Shania Twain

4. MY ALL * Mariah Carey

5. I GET LONELY * Janet Jackson

6. EVERYBODY (BACKSTREET'S BACK) * Backstreet Boys

7. ALL MY LIFE * K-Ci And Jo-Jo

8. TRULY MADLY DEEPLY * Savage Garden

9. THE ARMS OF THE ONE WHO LOVES YOU * Xscape

10. SEX AND CANDY * Marcy Playground

even with the rule changes, I still could sing/hum you eight of the top ten. R&B ruled the roost but there was still plenty of pop songs to go round as well and it was a fairly even mixture. I recall all but the Xscape song getting heavy video airplay (the Next song was huge but I honestly can't hum a single note from it).

Now lets move to the present

6-14-2008

1 1 LIL WAYNE LOLLIPOP

2 2 LEWIS*LEONA BLEEDING LOVE - SINGLE

10 3 COLDPLAY VIVA LA VIDA

4 4 RIHANNA TAKE A BOW

21 5 KATY PERRY I KISSED A GIRL

6 6 USHER LOVE IN THIS CLUB

5 7 JORDIN SPARKS DUET NO AIR

7 8 RAY J FEAT. YUNG BERG SEXY CAN I

3 9 DAVID COOK THE TIME OF MY LIFE

8 10 MADONNA 4 MINUTES

I have heard four of the top 10 songs (Bleeding Love has eluded me). 4 Minutes and Viva La Vida are the only ones of those two I can sing any part of. The Rihanna song is her weakest single yet even tho the remixes salvage things a bit, and the Usher song is just plain Usher, take ir or leave it. Lil Wayne's song is #1 even though his album is #197 this week with a total of 30,000 copies sold. David Cook's song is all sales, no airplay. And really popular songs by people like Natasha Bedingfield and Danity Kane are right below the top 10, while Brandy's Z-list LaToya/Dannii Minogue brother Ray J is #7? WTF.

I can tell something is wrong when I can sing more songs that were in the top 10 30 years ago, a year before I was born, than what's currently in the top 10. Billboard needs to change its hot 100 rules.

Well, don't want to be mean or anything but... do you listen to radio? No Air, Sexy Can I, Love in this Club, and Bleeding Love (especially) are so overplayed it's not funny. David Cook's song came out 2 weeks ago so that's understandable. The Katy Perry song is pretty new too. And Lollipop I probably have heard but it sounds too generic to be remembered.

[Supernatural]

I don't listen to the radio but I've heard No Air and Bleeding Love a buch of times (friends cars, in stores, etc).

What you have to remember is when you're a kid and teenager everything is aimed at you and when you get older less entertainment is going to cater to you. My parents weren't familiar or didn't give a shit about the 80's music I liked, and so on.

[franxisco66]

The sales chart should be the official chart. The airplay + sales + STEAMINGS [LMFAO at this] is wrong. Only 4 countries in the world apply that idiocy [uS, Canada, The Netherlands and New Zealand (Billboard Japan as well)].

A spin = people turning off the radio or changing it.

A sale = people PAYING for something they like it's *definitive*.

Artists promote their music in very diverse ways but you don't see tabloids or live performances factored in the Hot 100. Not even video airplay.

I agree. Radio stations play WHAT THEY LIKE AND CENSOR WHAT THEY LIKE, Remember the Dixie Chicks incident, some people wanted to hear them, but still radio stations didnt play them as fear of boycott or because they narrow-mindedness. This is just an example.

I would agree with an airplay + sales chart if radio listeners could choose, but let's face it. There isn't a choice. Billboard should know this and do something about it.

On a positive side, itunes have rocketed single sales and now we can see rock and pop acts on the top (sometimes). Rap and r'n'b will NEVER sell at the same level as rock asrtists do as we can see in the catalog charts. And I am happy with it.

[thebigham]

I hear No Air, Sexy Can I, Love in this Club, and Bleeding Love all the time. I'm sick of them along with 4M.

[albertogerard]

alberto, had "Vogue" been out in the BDS/SoundScan era, it undoubtedly would have had a longer reign on top. Backthen, airpl yand sales were compiled from radio station playlists and store reports- whatever the ranking was on those lits, a single got anassigned set of points. So, in essence, the overall No. 1 seller could have sold less units than some ranked below it (same with airplay- the No. 1 airplay title could have had less airplay trhan some ranked below it).

Thanks Holiday Guy for clarifying that. The charts have always been a mystery to me. That's why I come to this forum, I love all the chart stats and week to week trajectories. Keep up the GREAT work. I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates (and looks forward to) it.

[colias]

To prove that point further, I'll use data from my Billboard chart books from the 70's, 80's and 90's for this week 10, 20 and 30 years ago compared to today

6-10-1978

1. YOU'RE THE ONE THAT I WANT * John Travolta & Olivia Newton-John

2. SHADOW DANCING * Andy Gibb

3. TOO MUCH TOO LITTLE TOO LATE * Johnny Mathis & Deniece Williams

4. FEELS SO GOOD * Chuck Mangione

5. BAKER STREET * Gerry Rafferty

6. IT'S A HEARTACHE * Bonnie Tyler

7. ON BROADWAY * George Benson

8. TAKE A CHANCE ON ME * ABBA

9. WITH A LITTLE LUCK * Paul McCartney & Wings

10. THIS TIME I'M IN IT FOR LOVE * Player

I wasn't even born yet and I can either sing or hum at least part of the five bolded songs. Let's go to the next set when I was about 8-9

6-11-1988

1. ONE MORE TRY * George Michael

2. TOGETHER FOREVER * Rick Astley

3. EVERYTHING YOUR HEART DESIRES * Hall And Oates

4. SHATTERED DREAMS * Johnny Hates Jazz

5. NAUGHTY GIRLS (NEED LOVE TOO) * Samantha Fox

6. FOOLISH BEAT * Debbie Gibson

7. MAKE IT REAL * The Jets

8. DIRTY DIANA * Michael Jackson

9. CIRCLE IN THE SAND * Belinda Carlisle

10. THE VALLEY ROAD * Bruce Hornsby

20 years on, I can still sing or hum eight of the ten songs. I do remember the Jets and Bruce Hornsby songs getting airplay but can't remember much about either. All ten of these songs I remember getting MTV/VH1 airplay. All ten were well-known if you listened to pop music at all in 1988

Now we go ten years back when the rules had changed a bit, but at this time, you had to be a commercial single to chart, so a lot of airplay smashes were ineligable like "Torn" and "Iris" which were both major hits that summer

6-13-1998 (Frozen was #18 this week btw, Ray Of Light was still a month away from it's hot 100 debut)

1. THE BOY IS MINE * Brandy And Monica

2. TOO CLOSE * Next

3. YOU'RE STILL THE ONE * Shania Twain

4. MY ALL * Mariah Carey

5. I GET LONELY * Janet Jackson

6. EVERYBODY (BACKSTREET'S BACK) * Backstreet Boys

7. ALL MY LIFE * K-Ci And Jo-Jo

8. TRULY MADLY DEEPLY * Savage Garden

9. THE ARMS OF THE ONE WHO LOVES YOU * Xscape

10. SEX AND CANDY * Marcy Playground

even with the rule changes, I still could sing/hum you eight of the top ten. R&B ruled the roost but there was still plenty of pop songs to go round as well and it was a fairly even mixture. I recall all but the Xscape song getting heavy video airplay (the Next song was huge but I honestly can't hum a single note from it).

Now lets move to the present

6-14-2008

1 1 LIL WAYNE LOLLIPOP

2 2 LEWIS*LEONA BLEEDING LOVE - SINGLE

10 3 COLDPLAY VIVA LA VIDA

4 4 RIHANNA TAKE A BOW

21 5 KATY PERRY I KISSED A GIRL

6 6 USHER LOVE IN THIS CLUB

5 7 JORDIN SPARKS DUET NO AIR

7 8 RAY J FEAT. YUNG BERG SEXY CAN I

3 9 DAVID COOK THE TIME OF MY LIFE

8 10 MADONNA 4 MINUTES

I have heard four of the top 10 songs (Bleeding Love has eluded me). 4 Minutes and Viva La Vida are the only ones of those two I can sing any part of. The Rihanna song is her weakest single yet even tho the remixes salvage things a bit, and the Usher song is just plain Usher, take ir or leave it. Lil Wayne's song is #1 even though his album is #197 this week with a total of 30,000 copies sold. David Cook's song is all sales, no airplay. And really popular songs by people like Natasha Bedingfield and Danity Kane are right below the top 10, while Brandy's Z-list LaToya/Dannii Minogue brother Ray J is #7? WTF.

I can tell something is wrong when I can sing more songs that were in the top 10 30 years ago, a year before I was born, than what's currently in the top 10. Billboard needs to change its hot 100 rules.

You've made a point.

[Guest ercos]

TMB - 8 weeks in the Top10;

4M - 10 weeks in the Top10!!!

[Guest dicktracy]

I agree. Radio stations play WHAT THEY LIKE AND CENSOR WHAT THEY LIKE, Remember the Dixie Chicks incident, some people wanted to hear them, but still radio stations didnt play them as fear of boycott or because they narrow-mindedness. This is just an example.

I would agree with an airplay + sales chart if radio listeners could choose, but let's face it. There isn't a choice. Billboard should know this and do something about it.

On a positive side, itunes have rocketed single sales and now we can see rock and pop acts on the top (sometimes). Rap and r'n'b will NEVER sell at the same level as rock asrtists do as we can see in the catalog charts. And I am happy with it.

On the spot. Can you imagine Coldplay in the Top 3 without Itunes?

[motherandfather03]

i know this is someones job already but i couldn't resist!!!!!

from bks at pulse:

BILLBOARD HOT 100 - TOP 50

1 1 LIL WAYNE LOLLIPOP

3 2 COLDPLAY VIVA LA VIDA

2 3 LEWIS*LEONA BLEEDING LOVE - SINGLE

5 4 KATY PERRY I KISSED A GIRL

4 5 RIHANNA TAKE A BOW - STILL BULLETED

6 6 USHER LOVE IN THIS CLUB

7 7 JORDIN SPARKS DUET NO AIR

8 8 RAY J FEAT. YUNG BERG SEXY CAN I

11 9 NATASHA BEDINGFIELD POCKETFUL OF SUNSHINE

10 10 MADONNA 4 MINUTES

16 11 CHRIS BROWN FOREVER

14 12 PLIES BUST IT BABY PT. 2

12 13 DANITY KANE DAMAGED - STILL BULLETED

23 14 METRO STATION SHAKE IT

17 15 COLBY O'DONIS FEATU WHAT YOU GOT

15 16 JESSE MCCARTNEY LEAVIN' - STILL BULLETED

19 17 3 DOORS DOWN IT'S NOT MY TIME

20 18 SARA BAREILLES LOVE SONG

22 19 MARIAH CAREY BYE BYE

9 20 DAVID COOK THE TIME OF MY LIFE

13 21 LIL WAYNE FEATURING GOT MONEY

18 22 CAREY*MARIAH TOUCH MY BODY

21 23 CARRIE UNDERWOOD LAST NAME

28 24 COLBIE CAILLAT REALIZE

24 25 FLO RIDA LOW/JEALOUS

32 26 THE-DREAM I LUV YOUR GIRL

25 27 USHER FEATURING BEY LOVE IN THIS CLUB PART II

26 28 ONEREPUBLIC STOP AND STARE

34 29 LIL WAYNE A MILLI

31 30 JOHN MAYER SAY

76 31 THE PUSSYCAT DOLLS WHEN I GROW UP

33 32 GAVIN DEGRAW IN LOVE WITH A GIRL

42 33 KEYSHIA COLE HEAVEN SENT

27 34 TIMBALAND/ONEREPUBLIC APOLOGIZE - SINGLE

29 35 CHRIS BROWN WITH YOU

-- 36 YOUNG JEEZY FEATURI PUT ON

41 37 V.I.C. GET SILLY

45 38 NE-YO CLOSER

36 39 DUFFY MERCY

30 40 ROSS*RICK BOSS

40 41 KARDINAL OFFISHALL DANGEROUS - STILL BULLETED

35 42 RIHANNA DON'T STOP THE MUSIC (JODY DEN

47 43 FLYLEAF ALL AROUND ME

43 44 CHRIS BROWN TAKE YOU DOWN - STILL BULLETED

38 45 BRAD PAISLEY I'M STILL A GUY

50 46 ASHANTI THE WAY THAT I LOVE YOU

39 47 2 PISTOLS FEATURING SHE GOT IT

37 48 MILEY CYRUS SEE YOU AGAIN

56 49 BANNER*DAVID VGET LIKE ME

62 50 THREE 6 MAFIA FEATU LOLLI LOLLI (POP THAT BODY)

INTERESTING MOVES & DEBUTS

54 52 ESTELLE AMERICAN BOY

64 60 MAROON 5 FEATURING IF I NEVER SEE YOUR FACE AGAIN

66 62 KEYS*ALICIA TEENAGE LOVE AFFAIR

74 63 NEW KIDS ON THE BLO SUMMERTIME

83 71 KANYE WEST FEATURIN HOMECOMING

-- 72 DISTURBED INDESTRUCTIBLE

-- 76 GAVIN ROSSDALE LOVE REMAINS THE SAME

-- 81 LIL WAYNE FEATURING YOU AIN'T GOT NUTHIN

-- 84 MILEY CYRUS 7 THINGS

-- 86 HOT STYLZ FEATURING LOOKIN BOY

-- 92 LIL WAYNE FEATURING MR. CARTER

-- 98 SHWAYZE FEATURING C BUZZIN'

-- 99 PARAMORE THAT'S WHAT YOU GET

BUBBLING UNDER

-- 6 CAMP ROCK WE ROCK (FAN PACK)

12 25 JORDIN SPARKS ONE STEP AT A TIME

[Guest Hafo]

Yay! Another week in the Top 10!

[Cherish]

Excellent! I like 4 MINUTES, I'm pleased it's hanging in there!

[motherandfather03]

4 MINUTES BB HOT 100

68-3-3-7-6-4-6-7-7-8-10-10 (12 WEEKS SO FAR)

HUNG UP BB HOT 100

20-21-27-14-7-7-14-19-21-23-23-30-43-45-59-64-48-48-54-74 (20 WEEKS TOTAL)

AMERICAN LIFE BB HOT 100

90-74-67-37-52-71-71-86 (8 WEEKS TOTAL)

MUSIC BB HOT 100

41-23-18-14-2-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-4-8-11-16-20-25-27-27-29-44 (24 WEEKS TOTAL)

FROZEN BB HOT 100

8-5-2-3-4-4-5-9-11-14-15-16-18-22-40-40-44-54-62-56(20 WEEKS TOTAL)

SECRET BB HOT 100

30-9-4-4-3-5-6-6-6-7-7-9-12-15-15-18-26-31-36-40-42-50(22 WEEKS TOTAL)

EROTICA BB HOT 100

13-3-5-5-9-13-18-25-38-48-59-57-60-61-72-86-85-97 (18 WEEKS TOTAL)

LIKE A PRAYER BB HOT 100

38-25-11-5-3-1-1-1-2-10-18-31-41-56-73-98 (16 WEEKS TOTAL)

PAPA DONT PREACH BB HOT 100

42-35-24-12-6-4-2-1-1-3-9-14-27-35-55-66-70-99 (18 WEEKS TOTAL)

LIKE A VIRGIN BB HOT 100

48-38-21-11-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-7-9-17-28-43-61-76-100 (19 WEEKS TOTAL)

HOLIDAY note: 1st single from "madonna" album did not chart on the hot 100 )everybody)

88-76-68-60-55-45-39-33-31-31-27-25-17-16-16-22-36-53-63-87-94

just for fun

[Matt]

Wow, I never thought Chris Brown's "Forever" would be behind 4M.

[afrolito]

4min is like the little engine that could.

I NEVER thought it would last 11 weeks in the top 10. This is amazing and fantastic

[Guest jamesshot]

wow. just wow.

[Candylipsgirl]

wow. just wow.

HUGE for M ! considering all the past 8 yrs she had medicore hits.(minus Music)

[HolidayGuy]

M&F, you're missing a week in there- this is 4M's 12th week on the Hot 100.

I thought "Forever" would jump 4M- thought it would be close, though. Nice to see it hang in for another week (which likely will be its last- but great run).

[Guest hotstickyandsweet]

Bravo Madge!! Who would've guessed the new era would have kicked off with a song that spent almost a quarter of a year in the top 10?

[Kyoko]

So, you'd like Billboard, a magazine designed for the industry so that record labels can track the national success of their music, to change their rules and make the Hot 100 no longer a true reflection of popularity across all radio stations and all sales outlets, because... you can't hum most of the songs in the top ten?

I don't mind if people don't like the current music scene, but every time they point the finger at Billboard I want to scream. Billboard has NO CONTROL over what is popular, they are synthesizing numbers, pure and simple. It's like saying you don't like the results of a presidential election so could we just change the rules so that your vote doesn't count unless you live in a big city, or live on the coast, or like ice cream, or whatever arbitrary rule gets you the result you want.

If you don't like what the ten most popular songs in the country are, then the only thing you can do is be sure to buy the music you DO like and to share it with your friends and work for the success of those artists and songs you like.

@ the first paragraph.

As for the rest, I don't know what is so hard for people to understand that the Hot 100 is an all-encompassing chart and is the most accurate it has ever been.

Radio is radio and is problematic in its own way. Radio has always been difficult to crack for certain genres but this generation has witnessed a major genre shift. Only recently I was thinking that you gotta hand it to Mariah for succeeding where others (like Toni Braxton) have failed. She's remained alarmingly relevant by morphing herself into a sort of mid-tempo-hip-'pop' star.

[Guest tir69]

Great results , unexpected

[promise to try]

yes, I wasn´t expecting another week in the top ten, good for her!

[Guest Hafo]

Sorry if this has been already posted, but in the chart at http://www.billboardradio.com/billboardradio/radiojava.jsp, 4M shows certified as Platinum. Is this accurate?

[notsomuch]

Yeah, it's true. There is a nice triangle next to it on billboard. Should go double soon?

[thebigham]

Madonna singles with the most weeks in the top ten on the Hot 100:

15 - Take a Bow

12 - Music

11 - Secret

11 - 4 Minutes

10 - I'll Remember

9 - Like a Virgin

9 - Crazy For You

8 - Vogue

8 - Justify My Love

8 - This Used to be My Playground

8 - Frozen

8 - Don't Tell Me

[Laprol]

^Wow, mostly 90's and after.

[Guest Danny86]

Well, both "4 Minutes" & "Secret" peaked at #3, spent 11 weeks in the Top 10, were lead-off singles of "urban" flavoured" albums and were done by in-demand black producers.

The huge difference is that "Secret" peaked at #11 in sales and #3 in airplay while "4 Minutes" peaked at #11 in airplay and #1 in sales. Which one is the bigger and "more remembered" hit?